Are Women Done With Men After Age 55?

In my post on Advanced Divorce Sales, commenter Rhen suggested that women lose interest in men around age 55:

“Women in long-standing marriages tend to want to move on more”…Part of this may be biological. Hormonal changes after menopause seem to reduce a woman’s emotional range and particularly her interest/ability to bond. On the average, a 55 year old woman does not seem to feel a need for male company (I’m not even talking about sex here) in the same way a 55 year old man does for female company.

It has been my personal observation that whenever the discussion turns to the Dating/Mating/Marriage marketplace for women later in life the first response is denial, and after overwhelming data is provided the second response is that women don’t really want men around later in life anyway.

But since this assertion comes up fairly frequently I decided to see what I could dig up on the question.  If it turns out to be correct that around age 55 or so women feel a sudden urge to no longer be married, this would seem to reinforce those voices calling for an all out marriage strike.  If women aren’t interested in marriage for life, what is the point?

I did some searching around but either there isn’t much written on the topic or I wasn’t using the right search terms.  My own sense on this is that women tend to drop out of the dating market when their options are the slimmest just like men do when their options are slimmest.  I also think that the sex specific stigma of terms like spinster and old maid probably aren’t “social constructs” as so many assume.  It strikes me that in evolutionary terms a woman and her offspring who didn’t have investment from a man later in life would be at a disadvantage safety and resource wise compared with women who did. I don’t see any reason why this would suddenly cease to be around the age of 55.

At any rate, as I said I can’t find any studies which confirm this one way or another.  If you have any links I would appreciate it if you posted them in the comments section.  However, I do have access to data from the US Census, so I decided to chart out women’s relationship status by age bracket.  The data below is from the 2010 Census.  I limited the data set to White Non Hispanic women to remove potential trends which might be due to a demographic shift over time.  All values represent percents.

I think this data pretty well dispels the idea that women are wired to prefer to divorce and live alone later in life. A woman’s likelihood of being married remains surprisingly flat between ages 35 and 65.  Only after age 65 is the percentage of women married on the decline, and this is driven not by women divorcing and remaining unmarried, but by them becoming widows and not remarrying.

The only caveat that I’ll add is that each age bracket represents a different group of women.  So you can’t assume those in their 20s now for example will marry at the same rate today’s 30 year olds have.  However, if there were a strong biological preference for women to divorce and remain unmarried around age 55 I can’t think of any reason why it wouldn’t show up in this data set.

Update:  I now have data on 2009 US divorce rates per 1,000 married women by age.

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1,381 Responses to Are Women Done With Men After Age 55?

  1. Eric says:

    Actually, they’re done with men around the time they hit puberty. Media and academic feminism has taught them to hate men and treat us as rivals, enemies, and inferiors.

    Typically, American women follow three distinct relationship patterns:

    1. Mid teens-mid twenties: Usually forming no meaningful relationships with men, but enjoying rejecting men for sport. Typically experimenting with lesbianism.

    2. Mid twenties-mid thirties: Usually shacking up with some complete loser and maybe having kids with him.

    3. Mid thirties-mid forties: Usually they find some desperate mangina who’ll pay for everything she’s done in the past. After about a decade or so, she cleans the poor dupe out in a divorce case and repeats step #2; now though as a liberated ‘cougar’.

  2. Eric says:

    Dalrock:

    The survey you showed from the census doesn’t tell us how many of those married women were already in 2nd or 3rd marriages. That’s why the statistics on the divorce rate compared to the census figures don’t seem to square.

    Mostly, whether women stay married after 55 or not probably depends more on the economic benefit they gain; because whether or not they are with a man (any man) makes little difference to them.

  3. Dalrock says:

    @Eric
    The survey you showed from the census doesn’t tell us how many of those married women were already in 2nd or 3rd marriages. That’s why the statistics on the divorce rate compared to the census figures don’t seem to square.

    The data does in some ways raise as many questions as it answers. As you said divorce churn where women divorced and remarried wouldn’t show up, so you can’t tell what percent of the “married” line represents first vs second or third marriages, etc. For that we need to look at remarriage stats, as I already have. It still raises the question of why the % divorce line falls starting around age 65. We know that remarriage is a difficult proposition at that age, so it would seem to be some combination of higher death rates for divorcées and maybe lower incidence of divorce past a certain age. I’m just guessing there.

    There is a similar trend where the percent of never married people for men and women drops to very low values late in life. When I did my grey divorce series I compared this snapshot for two periods 10 years apart. It seems to not be a vestige of higher marriage rates in the past.

    At any rate, the assertion in question that women have a preference to divorce and not remarry around age 55 seems to be clearly disputed by the data.

  4. Jack Amok says:

    Yep, Women are not done with men at age 55. But men who are not already their husbands are done with them. Not many 55 year old women are going to get dates. And unfortunately for happily married women, by the time they’re 55, their husbands are at higher and higher risks of dying.

    Another femimyth busted. Good work Dalrock.

  5. Doug1 says:

    Eric–

    You sound like a bitter lower beta/omega SMP total loser. Your voice is annoying and hardly leadership quality to men; it’s repellent to most any half way attractive women.

    There is some truth to 3, due to our feminist lobbied divorce laws and divorce industrial complex family law system. 1 & 2 are largely garbage. Most of the alphas that middle class and up hot girls go through in their 20’s aren’t complete losers. They are however unwilling to commit until they get a good lot older, and then with a hotter girl than most of those that he’s banged.

  6. Lily says:

    I read somewhere that a 60 year old man has more oestrogen than a 60 year old woman (post menopause). No idea whether that’s true. But certainly a lot of women especially that didn’t work whilst bringing up their children seem to get a new lease of life in their 50s/60s, whilst their husbands want a rest at the end of a working life (and who can blame them).

  7. I wonder if any spike in divorce rates for women in the 55-66 age cohort is due to men retiring from work…the so-called “clinging leaves” phenomenon that Japan has had to wrestly with. All of the sudden these quasi-independent women have to deal with their husband around all day, messing up their flow.

    [D: I don't see the spike you are referring to.]

  8. wrestly == wrestle

  9. Eric says:

    The real losers are people still credulous enough to believe there are women worth having in the US dating scene.

    As for my annoying voice not being of value to men: I’ve posted on other blogs with comment ratings. Yet to see one where ‘thumbs down’ outpolled ‘thumbs up.’ People have suggested I start a blog too; although I’ve chosen not to.

    As for being repellent to attractive women: I’ve dated quite a few attractive women (outside the Anglosphere); and don’t seem to be repelling them very much. In fact, it’s American women who repel me, so I don’t even bother with them.

    This whole alpha/beta schmaltz is meaningless anyway. Women, in our culture, want inferior men; whether it’s the ‘thug’ (so-called alpha) or the metrosexual (so-called beta). Usually, it’s you ‘Game Theorists’ who wind up being the ones who are ‘played’. I’ve talked to plenty of Gamers out there who wound up on the receiving end of false accusations and child-support payments; never any one married to the kind of ‘hottie’ that most average street punks get!

  10. Eric says:

    Dalrock;

    I’ll check out some of your previous studies on this. Another factor might be, though, that women tend to marry men older than themselves and men typically have shorter lifespans. This would also account for 55+ women staying unmarried. She may be receiving alimony from a previous marriage and an inheritance upon becoming a widow; hence no need to bother with re-marriage.

    [D: Men's shorter life span is spread out in the form of higher mortality throughout their lives. So by the time a couple lives to be 65 (him) and 60 (her), she is only likely to outlive him by a total of 6.7 years.

    What you are saying about older divorcées not remarrying to conserve alimony makes some sense, but it doesn't appear to show up in the data. Divorced women appear to either be dying at a faster rate than married & widows, and/or divorcées over 65 are remarrying faster than their married cohorts are divorcing.]

  11. I agree the lack of desire is more a reaction to rejection. One thing to keep in mind is if the dating game is one where women have a hard time dating down in age and are open to dating men older and the older men are dying off over 55, then the pool that will find them attractive is diminished. Think a 35 yo can’t compete with a 25 yo? How are a 55 yo vs. a 45 yo?

    I also question if women in their teens and early 20s aren’t already going to react and start marrying or having children earlier than the women of the last 15 years. Autistic kids and thousands of money fruitlessly spent on IVF by their aunts and older cousins might weigh on young women’s minds. HIV caused straight folks to change habits slightly, and who is to say the negatives experienced by women 35-50 right now who put off marriage and kids only to regret it will not influence the teens/early 20s young women?

  12. “Yep, Women are not done with men at age 55. But men who are not already their husbands are done with them. Not many 55 year old women are going to get dates. And unfortunately for happily married women, by the time they’re 55, their husbands are at higher and higher risks of dying.”

    When a single woman crosses the rubicon of five decades, the rationalization hamster starts doing an odd gavotte. The hamster is getting tired, after all. Women at that age can go three routes –

    1. They completely give up on trying to find a relationship. It really doesn’t matter the reasons why, the rationalization hamster is still healthy.
    2. They try to make an honest self-assessment of their value in the dating marketplace. The failure rate is high.
    3. They get really, really desperate. I see many online dating profiles of women who are older than 55 yet still claim their age is 49.

    I’m turning into an older, crankier bachelor myself.

  13. sestamibi says:

    My own experience suggests that while they may or may not lose interest, there will always be a subset of women who simply do not want to get married, for whatever reason. As their cohort ages, it is obvious that those among them who wanted a husband badly enough will make whatever compromises necessary along the way, and that the share of the “single and loving it” component will increase over time. That is why it actually got harder for me as I got older.

    By the time I finally got married in my mid-40s to someone at the outer limit of her reproductive years, I was let go from my job just about the time she came home one day to announce “I’m pregnant!”

    Fortunately, times were good enough that I was able to find something easily and we moved to (of all places) Dallas. I took the bus to work there and met a fellow commuter who was about my age, also originally from New York, and a fellow member of The Tribe. She had never been married, and when I told her about my wife and the new baby we were expecting, she shook her head, bit her lip and said “But what about your freedom?” Can you believe she was feeling SORRY for ME??!?!

    And thus ends the Jewish people–not by Holocaust, but by feminism.

    Postscript: Our son, the most beautiful boy in the world, is now almost thirteen and low functioning autistic. Instead of preparing him for his bar mitzvah we spend much of our time cleaning up the shit he smears all over his bedroom and bathroom. Such also is the price of children late in life. Thank you feminism for that too.

  14. Johnycomelately says:

    From a personal observation (don’t know why I know so many over 55s considering I’m 35) women over 55 are definately NOT over men. What is interesting though is that the ones that are over it are usually hung up on a past Alpha (often their husbands who passed away) and won’t entertain another man. The quality ones still have plenty of offers.

  15. Dalrock says:

    @Dan S
    Relevant article:

    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article1575773.ece

    Good link, and another great example of the media selling divorce to women. Note the complete lack of statistics. How is it I have data and they don’t? The whole article was about 1 woman.

    The intro is classic:

    Most divorces after the age of 50 are initiated by women. Why? In a new book, Dr Louann Brizendine explains how changes caused by the menopause weaken women’s instinct to hold a family together and liberate them from the need to put up with the failings of second-rate husbands

    The headline should be: Women over 50 still initiate the majority of divorces, and menopause is a bitch.

  16. Dex says:

    Personal anecdote: a friend’s mother recently passed away. It was only a matter of weeks before her father (in his late 50’s) was receiving LOADS of attention from women his age. Some of the women were quite forward, offering to take him on cruises etc. He wasn’t on any dating sites, this was just in his small TX town and on facebook. He actually began dating again much sooner than my friend was comfortable with. Women over 50 or 55, in his experience, still wanted very much to have a man around.
    Perhaps in your AARP data you have something on how likely a man of this age is likely to remarry. If it’s very high, that might indicate that there’s no shortage of womens’ interest at that age?

  17. May I also point out in the article;

    “Masters in Social Work.”

    Those worthless degrees are the seeds of destruction of the West.

  18. JG says:

    The majority of women over 55 who are “over men” are that way because few men have interest in them, I would guess. For every attractive women in that age range it’s more likely that a man will find 99 who are no longer attractive enough to turn the heads of most men their age. I do think that an alternative is for single women to be open to relationships with men 10 to 20 years older than them once those women reach middle age, which many women are. But the pool of available men is small because of life expectancy, as noted by other posters.

    With vengeance, Mother Nature or Father Time make older women pay for their youthful good looks.

  19. Eric says:

    Dalrock:

    I’m not sure whether earlier census figures reflected this; but it seems that in pre- feminist American it wasn’t uncommon for women over 55 to re-marry. I know my great-grandmother was widowed at 60 and remarried at about age 65; and some of my other older relatives even re-married after widowhood and even had children.

    What I suspect is the current trends reflect the inherent misandry of feminism which sees men as a disposable commodity. Older generations of women seemed to want to continue marrying and raising families, even as they got older.

    [D: I don't question why a man or woman wouldn't want to marry again after the death of their long time spouse. With that said, I think you may be misreading the chart. The point wasn't that widows are done with men, but that the only drop later in life in women's status as married came from causes beyond their control. If women wanted to divorce at 55, they would be doing so. The data shows otherwise.]

  20. Paige says:

    I have been following these posts about the non-marriageability of 30 year olds and it is freaking me out. The manosphere is making me co-dependent.

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  22. Helvetica says:

    Paige, it is freaking me out too. I am in the *ahem* back half of the twenties and I have been trapped in a dead decaying part of the country because of parental guilt and brokeness. I was the only person in my major in college who was able to find a job in the area, the rest all moved a minimum of 100 miles away.

    My parents and grandparents would have me live in the same town where I grew up, even though the only males who live there are baby-daddy meth dealers. Just goes to show you that parents don’t always have their kids’ best interests in mind.

  23. Anonymous Reader says:

    Items in no order:

    My observations match those of Dex, have seen widowers over 70 mobbed by widows who wish to care for him.

    As noted in a previous thread, the divorcees I have known over 50 were to varying degrees resigned to their situation; they were not over men, they just accepted that it was not likely there would be another one in their life.

    I know a single mother with a 2 year old who married a man who also had a two year old. He works in a low level government job, but has good security. She’s a pleasant enough woman, who made a big mistake twice (the first child had some kind of health issue from birth and died young) yet managed to find a man to be loyal to. They have twins now. Although she had to move some 600 or so miles to marry, she did so. Now here is the kicker: these two lower-class white folks met via eHarmony. Neither one of them is good looking enough to be on the TV advertisements, but that doesn’t matter, they do have each other. So FWIW I have one (1) data point on the efficacy of eHarmony.

    That newspaper article is a classic example of modern “journalism”; solipsism and a party line intertwined to sell more divorce to women.

  24. Eric says:

    Dalrock;

    I would agree that women probably aen’t divorcing after 55 to remarry; but my point was that they are motivated by economic reasons for their choices today; whereas in the past they were motivated by other factors.

    The overall trends from the statistics seem to indicate two things: women are marrying; but the divorce rate is constant. Out-of-wedlock births are increasing, but the overall number of divorces seems to be declining. What this equals is that alimony and child-support are more profitable than traditional marriage (at least for ONE gender, LOL).

  25. Paige says:

    Helvetica-
    Don’t freak out…if you don’t have “baggage” such as kids or a divorce then you are ahead of the game. At worse you might have to adjust the ages you are willing to date. I know that men in their 40’s-50’s see women in their 30’s as relatively young. The irony is that men see women their own age as old as mold.

  26. Timitz says:

    I think part of why widows tend not to remarry is due to the bond they had with the deceased partner. If you have been able to keep your marriage together for 20-30 years, odds are there is a strong bond there, that would be difficult to replace with another person. My wife has told me that if I died young she would probably remarry, so she had someone to help support her and the kids. But if we were older, she wouldn’t want to remarry. That seems to be the trend I notice with Widows, if they are young, they are more likely to get remarried, but once they hit a certain age, they don’t want to do that as much.

  27. jz says:

    Dalrock asks, It still raises the question of why the % divorce line falls starting around age 65.
    Women don’t divorce after 65 because Social Security benefits are higher when based upon husband’s income. Personal finance trumps biology.

    Dalrock reads, Most divorces after the age of 50 are initiated by women. Why?
    Many women stay in marriages for the benefit of their children. After children move on, the women divorce the husbands they’ve not loved in a decade. Children trump Self.

  28. Dalrock says:

    @jz
    Women don’t divorce after 65 because Social Security benefits are higher when based upon husband’s income. Personal finance trumps biology.

    The data doesn’t (directly) show the rate of divorce by age bracket. You are confusing being divorced with getting divorced. My question was where are the divorcées going? As I have shared before, 30 out of 1,000 woman age 45-64 marry in any given year. After age 65 this drops to 4 per 1,000. So why does the relative population of divorcées drop so dramatically after age 65? I agree that it appears that women in that age bracket must be divorcing at extremely low rates. But even if they stop divorcing altogether the remarriage rates wouldn’t seem to be enough to drive this trend.

    Many women stay in marriages for the benefit of their children. After children move on, the women divorce the husbands they’ve not loved in a decade. Children trump Self.

    This wasn’t my point. From the data it is pretty clear that women aren’t divorcing in large numbers at age 55. Since the percentage of women who are divorced remains flat at this age, it would seem that the divorce rate is likely very close to the remarriage rate (30 per 1,000 per year)*. Also, the article asked why women initiate most of the divorces at that age, forgetting that women initiate the bulk of divorces at any age.

    *Edit: Actually it must be much lower than this because there are over three times as many married women as divorced women in that age bracket. So it must be more like 10 divorces for every 1,000 married 55 year old woman per year. This isn’t taking into account the higher mortality rates for divorced vs married women, which would bring the estimate of divorces per 1,000 married women back up a bit.

  29. Lily says:

    dalrock, blog fodder for you if you’re interested & haven’t looked at before.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03/a-long-life.html

    [D: Thanks for thinking of me and sharing that. From what I have found it appears that everyone agrees that those who stay married live longer, but the question is was it the marriage that caused better health or did the better health (or something correlated to it) keep marriages together? I'm not surprised they didn't include any stats; I don't think I've ever seen anyone assert that divorce increases longevity for women. Certainly the US Census data seems to suggest otherwise. Where do all of the divorcées over 65 go? We know very few are getting remarried. Are they leaving the country?]

  30. Over 55 Divorcee says:

    I have been divorced for over 15 years and only recently have decided to get back into the dating scene. Why did it take me this long? For me, my children came first. Now that they are out of the house or in college, it is my turn. The problem is that I have found very few men around my age who 1) have taken care of themselves physicially and therefore are not pleasing to the eye, 2) know how to communicate intelligently even after all this time and 3) aren’t full of themselves even at their age. Would I want to spend my time with someone like this, not really. While I would love to be in a healthy, caring and fun relationship with a man and even remarry, I have found the companionship of my women friends to be much more fun and intellectually satisfying. According to the data, it sounds like I am pretty normal.

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  32. sefpyu says:

    The idea that women feel in less need of a man after menopause isn’t all that implausible and it isn’t refuted in any straightforward way by an examination of how many of them divorce. Women may come to feel in a general way that getting and keeping a man isn’t worth the effort it once seemed to be.

    I’m of the right cohort and it isn’t at all obvious to me why a woman would make sacrifices for the pleasure of my company and the opportunity to find stuff for me as I age if I’m not her kids’ Dad. It may be that the biological impulses that affect younger women continue — there’d need to be a reason for them to shut down immediately — but there’s no real reason to expect them to not dissipate, either.

    The anecdotal descriptions of widowers beset by older women are more to the point.

  33. sefpyu says:

    I meant “find stuff for me as I age and show me how to turn off the goddam italics”.

  34. Dalrock says:

    @sefpyu
    The idea that women feel in less need of a man after menopause isn’t all that implausible and it isn’t refuted in any straightforward way by an examination of how many of them divorce. Women may come to feel in a general way that getting and keeping a man isn’t worth the effort it once seemed to be.

    I think I get your point. It is possible for example that the urge to divorce and the urge to marry are both lessened at around the same age. However, the original assertion was directly tied to divorce. So the data I presented is in fact directly relevant.

  35. Andy Roberts says:

    The question is not whether women over 55 lose interest in men. The reality is that few men have any interest in a women over 50. Maybe as a companion. Our culture is one of the few where it is assumed (falsely) that men should marry women of similar ages. We even have the delusion of the “Cougar” phenomenon. In most cultures men marry women considerably younger than themselves. especially in second marriages. There have been many scientific studies on this including one extensive one from of all places Sweden that found that the “perfect” age difference was the wife should be approximately 16 year younger. Western women, especially American feminist don’t want to hear this, There is lots of science to back this up http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17726515
    I have read both the Female Brain and the Male Brain books by Dr Louann Brizendine. While I respect much of her work n the area of sexual activity she is in “la la” land. For example she states that on average a man wants 14 sexual partners in his life while a women wants 1 or 2. This is the same women who everyone is quoting on this over 55 stuff. In my company 85% of the employees and interns are college age females. My guess would be by age 25 the average American girl has had more then 10 sexual encounters. One or two in their life time? Be serious Dr Louann Brizendine!
    May girls exceed that just from Bachelorette parties! The fact is the key thing to women’s sex drive is that they feel “desired” and few (very few) women over 55 are going to feel desired so it makes since that they should be losing interest in men, because men have lost interest in them a long time ago. Besides the husband they should be losing interest in should not be 55 he should be 67. And if he took care of himself and is successful he will have no problem upgrading to a newer model! No body said nature was fair or pretty all have to do is watch Animal Planet!

  36. sefpyu says:

    Dalrock: Fair enough.

    Nonetheless, I’ve an interest in the issue: I was raised to think that women and men are pretty much the same, apart from the bumps. I’ve taken the red pill, or at least read and understood the package. I’m now heading once more into the breach. Once more. A woman roughly my age, say, 45-55, who isn’t looking to find a man who will invest in their children and give her sons who will disperse her genes widely, may not respond as younger women apparently do to being treated with, e.g., amused indifference, etc. Do shit tests decline after menopause?

    Roughly, I’d rather not start treating women like crap at the precise moment they turn into human beings. If they do. (This omits some nuance, but you get the idea.)

    A.R.: A while back Roissy posted statistics on the number sexual partners American women aged 15 to 45 have had: the median is a little under 3 and the mean is a little under 8.

  37. John says:

    Interesting discussion.
    I am almost 65 and pass for 10-15 years younger than my age. I could probably date someone around 50 but I have always thought that a 10 year difference is the maximum spread for an enduring relationship. Both you and your partner must accept each other’s wrinkles and bags to be physically attracted to one another.
    I just joined a few dating websites. I am amazed at what woman within my age bracket are seeking: “soul mate”, “mister right”, “travel companion” and other unrealistic expectations. I realize that many guys want a woman with a perfect body and a gorgeous face and preferably 20 years younger. But let’s get real. Neither of these older folks are going to find what they are looking for.
    I guess Americans in general believe they have a bunch of options in their lives and many live in a fantasy world brought to them by the constant barrage from the media.
    Me? I have never been married. I have had some relationships that lasted 4 to 5 years. After I broke them off, each time I felt I was released from jail. The pettiness, the accusations, the whining and the upward mobility climb just drained me. The last one was 15 years ago.
    I don’t get lonely, since I am out many times during the week singing karaoke and playing pool, plus my cat is my best buddy.
    I am investigating what is out there because I will be on Medicare in a few months. I realize I’m not getting younger. So far, I am not very impressed. Lots of very overweight women with unrealistic expectations wanting to settle down and not wanting to waste any time trying to find it. I guess you can’t blame them.
    It should be a fun ride. I am definitely not expecting to find anyone I am very attracted to, much less marry. But if I don’t, no big deal. Being single and contented is so much better than being miserable with the wrong one.

  38. houx says:

    I don’t what to say about the article but I enjoyed all the comments. I am 52 and have been married for 25 years, my husband is 80. I think it is better to be married.
    Sometimes it can get boring but my husband tells me I have more personalities then Sybil so that keeps it going. As for other women I know who are around my age a lot are getting divorced or have got divorced I think it is a tough road ahead.
    Anyway it helps to have a big house and four bathrooms. Besides who would get the dog.

  39. Mike says:

    I’m a 35 year old male. I gave up on finding a girlfriend years ago. I dated a few women that turned out to be not nearly as nice or as smart as I originally thought they were. I figure that I’ll be single for life, and can only pray that I’ll have a wife in the afterlife. Over the years, masturbation has fully satisfied me, and I don’t feel the need to seek out women for casual sex. I have a big problem with all these young women that either spend the prime of their lives rejecting men altogether, or sleep around with losers. I won’t marry one of those older women that forced good men to spend the best years of life alone. BTW, the “cougar phenomenon” is a Hollywood myth/fad.

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  41. sean says:

    From my own anecdotal observations. My great grandfather lived to be 100. He was a widower at 70. Even in his 90s he had women in their 60-70 falling all themselves to “visit” with him. My dad is a widower (63) & their have been a steady stream of 50-55 year old women beating down his door before my moms ashes were cooled in crematorium. My mom and dad were together for over 40 yrs.

  42. sean says:

    Also I noticed the woman in the UK article went back to her husband. If she had so many self fullfilling options why would she do that?

  43. Sandy says:

    I have been divorced for over 10 years now and I fit the dreaded profile of the over 55 woman who has not remarried and doesn’t intend to. I now have full control of the remote. I can stay up all night and sleep in all day if I please. I can spend my money recklessly and only have myself to berate me for it later. I don’t have to cook unless I feel like it; I clean when I feel like it. I answer to no one but myself for the first time in my life and I am never lonely. In the beginning, I would have probably remarried if the situation had presented itself, because I was accustomed to taking care of people and having someone around. But I look at my “ex” and the problems he has with his blended family and I am glad I didn’t. When my children come home, they are truly home; there is no stranger here to make them feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. And if I feel the need to bond with someone, I go pick up one of my grandchildren; they are the loves of my life now.

  44. gbl says:

    I’ve been married for 30 years, but to a different woman than I first married. She has the same name and almost the same looks but she’s different. She has no libido, hates being touched except when she wants her back scratched (and it must be just right), is incredibly cranky, hates being around children, and considers it her right to spend all the money and push us into great debt. Completely different to the woman I married. There are no longer rational disagreements. If softly cornered by logic she’ll become inflamed. She is absolutely convinced she is a “victim” in all circumstances. I look at this woman and think, “Who is she?” and “What is she?” It all changed about two years after she had a hysterectomy, which was about 12 years ago.

    Now I look back at our grandparents and parents and see a similar pattern. Late in life the husband (in general and remains married) becomes more compliant, subservient and quiet, while the wife becomes more intolerant, loud and cranky, especially if they’ve been married many years. The husband learns that logical responses to situations is met with anger and that he will never have the last word in any argument (to do so is considered as starting a new argument). Respectful silence and passive affirmative communication becomes his response or great verbal assault begins. Look at your grandparents (if they’ve been married a long time) and see if you agree.

    I believe many women, when they are older than 50, lose the desire to have a mate. Since the libido is gone (which drives us to others physically) and since there is an absence of estrogen (which calms her troubled mind) she has no need of such a relationship, unless it is to take care of her.

    Would I marry again? Why on earth would anyone do so unless they just enjoy taking care of someone who hates the thought of sex and can’t help being perpetually irritable? Besides that….sure!

  45. The Player says:

    A 61 year old male here. I am an executive with the same company for 32 years. Divorced when I was about 50. I look good for my age and have a great life. I find this article interesting as I have life experiences that direct my opinion on women 55-62 (62 oldest I have dated). If an old man wants sex, this is your crowd. It is like reversed roles as teenagers. Men (boys) could not get enough. Now these old women can’t get enough. It is the basis for their being. You can’t just go out for a nice date without being jumped. As men age, they think about sex, but they think about the woman being 30-45. I like ladies 55-60, but really, there is a very small handful that make you consider jumping into the tub and having a memorable night. We are visual creatures (men certainly are). Men know younger women are not attracted to them for their looks and simply make the decision to spend the bucks or just skip it. Most men will take the shot for a more youthful woman. Not all is lost for older women if they can just cool their jets. Older men appreciate the sidom and experience of an older play mate. But if the fun mate starts talking about be sexual and they prefer a passionate man. Step away from the table. I loveit when a 62 year old woman tells you her goal is to find her soulmate……Oh yeah, she was from the 60’s and still believes in astrology. Women of 55 are a really confused crowd…..and keep in mind, they are divorced for a reason…..Almost every woman I date has the same story and will share within 3 minutes of meeting. Their husband was not a loving husband and they rarely had sex. First flag…and here you are going god, I wish she was 35……I seldom run into a widow..men are living much longer, which is part of the problem. The older generation does not know how to act as role models were rare.
    Good luck to all of us as we wade through the maze. One thing is for sure…there is an endless supply to try your luck with………Remember, I am referring to the misery of the single set. The married set have their on misery to deal with…………ha.

  46. Nan says:

    I lost my high school sweetheart just about 3 years ago – we were married right out of hs and had been married almost 37 years when he passed away after a long illness. My adult daughter keeps trying to set me up with men she knows (and THAT’S uncomfortable, lol) but I tell her I can’t imagine getting close to another man. I don’t know why the divorcees aren’t remarrying (unless their experiences with marriage were painful enough to keep them away) but I suspect many widows would rather live with the memories of a great marriage, assuming that kind of happiness can’t come twice.

  47. Kate says:

    I am 55 and got approached by two quite pleasant men of the same age today. However I don’t want a man in my life because I want to smoke in my house, put my shoes up on the sofa, spend all the housekeeping on a silk dress if I want or spend an entire weekend painting a canvass without being whined at about when I’m going to be finished. I have never had any man’s money or claimed alimony or child support. Not all women fit the cliches you are bandying around!

  48. Pingback: How common is late life divorce? | Dalrock

  49. Susan says:

    My husband left me when I was 42. I was left to raise my two sons. He remarried and divorced a year and a half later. He remarried and has a daughter who is about 10 now. I did not date for nearly 10 years because I had to find a job and raise my sons…they came first. When I did date, I met several men who wanted me to raise their children while they went over the road driving or pursued their own careers. After several terrible dating experiences, I came to the conclusion that I was better to be on my own than trying to fit “their expectations” just to have companionship. I personally am now afraid to commit to a relationship and doubt that I will ever marry even though I am in long distance relationship with a high school friend. So personally I think some women after 50 think they need to enjoy their lives without having to take care of others.

  50. june says:

    Its my experience with dating sites that all men apart from very ancient ones, repulsive ones or weirdos, dont want any woman over 55, so its not that women are not interested in men, its just that they cant find any.! I am 64 am told could easily pass for 50, i have a young attitude and i dress trendily and am slim , i have many younger female friends in their 30s, 40s and 50s, they have no problem with my age,its not relevant , we socialize together, go shopping etc, but men seem to imagine once you hit 55 you become a wrinkled. sexless prune. I really wish now i had lied about my age, i could have gotten away with it, but i was truthful. i do get lonely, as i said i have good friends but they mostly have partners and sometimes that companionship of a partner i miss. I go to a single social group sometimes but the few men whe belong there all seem to hit on the under 55s. Are men egos so big they really thing younger women will want them, some of them i have to say although younger than myself, look a damm sight older.So i guess like most women over 55 i will have to except my situation, hard as it is, cause i dont think men are going to change anytime soon.

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  52. Cynthia says:

    We are just tired of all of the work that comes with being a woman these days and never getting any time to do what we want to do. It’s always time to go to work, and then come home, cook the dinner, clean up the dinner, and then make the men a treat while they watch TV. Of course this is after years of fitting in t ball practice supervising homework, brownie cub scout meetings teen angst, by age 55 we are done- with everything. I spend a good deal of time psyching myself up to do everything that still needs doing. Honestly all I really want to do is rent a hotel room or lie in a hammock somewhere where no one knows where I am.

  53. gbl says:

    I chuckle at this. My wife cooks only dinner about 1/3 and cleans up about the same amount. Make a treat…that happens about once a month. I help with all the homework. Brownies….come on. My happiest times are when she leaves to go compete with horse. But even then I have to help load and unload almost everything. She complains that I don’t come along and be a stable boy when she’s exhausted. The best time is when she’s gone and can’t reach me by cell phone…and there is peace…. Then I can go take a 12 mile run….and have time to watch some sports, yes, TV. Yes, it would be nice to have some lovemaking but that hasn’t really happened in years and never will again. This is not the woman I married…she disappeared long ago.

  54. 30yearoldwhofeels100 says:

    I’m 30. I’m a female. I already don’t want to be married. I have three kids. I’ve been with the same man for 10 years, married for 5 of those years. He’s 15 years my elder. I see him looking at girls that are 12-13 years old, and he says that that is normal. Maybe it is, but it doesn’t make it good. Think about this… yes, 12-13 year olds have reached puberty, but it takes at least a few years for their ovulation cycle to become regular. Meaning, that the chances of pregnancy that young are actually not as good as you’d think that they would be. I think that environment and how early men are exposed to sexual imagery determines who they’re attracted to. When primitive men were first developing attraction towards females, food was probably scarce… so she would be skinny, and possibly not have a lot of breast development. Does that make that the best possible choice for a mate? No, obviously not. She could die of starvation. Now, the sexual imagery… I imagine if we ask men, when they were first exposed to pornography, many would say when they were just hitting puberty, or high school. Their valid mate options at that time… girls close to their age. So, they have it in their head, when they’re developing that girls from the ages of 12-17 for instance are their valid mates. My husband admitted to viewing porn at the age of 12. What kind of girls is he attracted to? 12 year olds. I’d like to see studies done on this. Do I think that he is bad because of this? No. But he would be if he acted on the attraction because the girls are still developing, and he’s being selfish. Why? Because he’d die a lot sooner than she would, leaving her alone, to care for children, and by the time he did die, she wouldn’t be attractive to other males anymore, again, leaving her alone. Why do I want to divorce? Because I know that my worth, as a woman, isn’t much anymore. My husband wants a younger woman. I can bow out gracefully and let him have her, so long as it’s legal, and she takes responsibility of caring for the children. I’ve had health problems for a while, already, and honestly, I just feel too old to deal with this sh*t. And for those of you who think that sex is the problem, I have sex with him, even when I’m unwell to keep our marriage “happy”. So, sex can’t be blamed in this case. Do I ever intend on remarrying or dating? No. Men are too much trouble. And yeah, I know, some of you men are saying the same thing of women, but how would you feel if you were with me, and suddenly, you’re not valuable anymore because you’ve gotten older? My husband is older, and I love him just as much as I did when I met him, but it’s not the same for him.

  55. Chels says:

    A 45 year old attracted to 12 year old girls? Sounds like he’s a pedophile or has some sort of mental problems. Maybe he married you because you were so much younger than him, but now that you’re getting older, you’re no longer attractive? Either way, that just seems like trouble.

  56. Sue says:

    How can you love someone who thinks it is okay to look at preteens when he has a wife? I am worried about your statement about backing away if she would take responsibility for the children…would you honestly leave your children to a man who is so selfish..I doubt that they would be cared for …your man and new woman would be too busy satisfying their needs. If you have had health issues and he is looking elsewhere..that just proves how selfish he is.

    I think you need some counseling to figure out this mess. I agree with Chels…your husband needs help if he is turned on by 12 yr old girls.

  57. barbara casto says:

    I found that after 2 failed marriages, I was reluctant to disrupt the life I rebuilt for myself. At 62 I find I tend to be attracted more to younger men, but then if he’s more than 10-12 years younger it feels uncomfortable. We have fewer common life expeneriences. There are few men within 5 years of my age that are interesting. The strong pull of sexual desire is just barely there any more. It is a bit of a relief, but alo a little dissappointing. I think the potential for an exiciting fling is there, but doubt it would last long enough for a serious relationship. I want to have friendships with men. I want to talk to them and go places with them. I’m open to the possibility of sexual love, but need to know a man longer than I needed 30 years ago. I also take longer to get aroused. I kind of wish I had been more like this when I was younger. I might have behaved more wisely.

  58. Benny says:

    Many women over 55 are looking for relationships for economic reasons. Most um-married men over 55 are divorced once or twice. The previous wives and children have everything already. The truth is these same men are looking for a 55= woman to support them.. As the old adage goes all the good ones are married or in the cemeteries!

  59. Benny says:

    Many women over age 55 will look for a relationship thinking she will find some one to “take care ” of her financially. Most man in that same age group are probably divorced once or twice. The previous wives and children already have the house and in many cases the man’s pension. Many men on the other hand are looking for the woman to support him….So as the old adage goes”All the good ones are married or in the cemetery”

  60. Sue says:

    I say take care of yourself…it is a lot easier than going through all that hassle to make someone take care of you. I feel sorry for you, Benny , if you think everything comes down to money. I would hope that a relationship would be built on caring and communication but then according to so many posts on here….next year I will be hunting for a caretaker. LOL!!!!!!!!

  61. Kelli says:

    First off, cuddos to Kate and Cynthia! It’s funny how most of the men on this post think that they have all the answers as to why women over 55 aren’t getting married again. I’m 61 but can pass for 40. I’ve been divorced more than once – by choice, and remained single 9 years – by choice. I’ve had more than my fair share of marriage proposals in the past 9 years, but date them long enough, and the truth eventually comes out. The majority of men out there over 45 are single for a very good reason. The ones in their 40’s and some in their 50’s are looking for someone to help raise their children. No thanks! Been there – did a great job of raising my children, but you’re on your own with that one. I’ve yet to meet one divorced man out there who wanted the divorce. So, what does that tell you? The women instigated the divorces – just like I did. Most men are still little boys. Men also think very highly of themselves and believe they are in high demand and honestly believe that every woman they meet is after them. They can be one of the most unattractive men on the planet and truly believe that they deserve a beautiful 30 year old. Delusional! Also, it’s amazing how a man’s self esteem is not affected by their looks or income. As a whole men are self-centered and very critical of older women. Which brings me to another observation…most 50-55 year old men look much older than their female counterparts. Finally, it’s all about them…period. I’m not bitter, just wise. I’d much rather curl up with a good book than have even a first date with a man who still hasn’t learned how to appreciate and treat a woman. And by the way, that happens to be the majority of single men out there today. And as to “The Player”…well your name says it all, doesn’t it? Men like you are the main reason women like me choose to remain single!

  62. Dalrock says:

    @Kelli

    I’m 61 but can pass for 40. I’ve been divorced more than once – by choice, and remained single 9 years – by choice. I’ve had more than my fair share of marriage proposals in the past 9 years, but date them long enough, and the truth eventually comes out. The majority of men out there over 45 are single for a very good reason.

    Just a small typo in your last sentence. I think what you meant was:

    The majority of men out there over 45 dating 61 year olds who think they look 40 are dating deluded older women for a very good reason.

    No need to thank me!

  63. detinennui32 says:

    @ Kelli:

    Two phrases:

    Entitlement princess.

    Wildly overinflated view of her own SMV.

  64. dragnet says:

    The vast majority of women aren’t done with men later in their lives. The data doesn’t lie. Sure, you have a few damaged, beaten down people of both sexes looking to avoid the opposite sex, but in the main this is not the case.

    When will women learn that internet anecdotes are insufficient to disprove actual statistical data?

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  66. detinennui32 says:

    dragnet: women want men later in life. They just can’t get and keep them.

  67. Chels says:

    dragnet: women want men later in life. They just can’t get and keep them.

    Of course they want men, but to make themselves feel better, they say they don’t need/want one if they can’t get one.

  68. detinennui32 says:

    now you’re catching on, chels.

  69. Sue says:

    I disagree with a few things that I have read. My ex wanted a divorce…he is married for the third time. My sons are 21 and 19,,,he also has a daughter with his third wife. His daughter is about 10. He spent little time with his sons though I encouraged him to be part of their life. I did not have much time to date after he left us. I raised the boys and worked full time. The few men I did meet were looking for mothers for their children. If I was to be in another relationship…it would to be a mutual friendship and caring for one another. I don’t need anymore responsibilty.

  70. Dinah says:

    I was happily married for 20 years. My husband died suddenly when I was 44, he was 46. It has taken me probably 4-5 years to feel like I’m getting back to a “new normal”. I have dated just a few guys, usually only one or two dates. I was in a somewhat dysfunctional relationship off and on for 3 years. The guy had charm. However he had another side: heavy alcohol abuse, a liar, impulsive, terrible with money. Although I haven’t really maximized my chances to meet men, I haven’t seen or met many quality guys that are single. I’m sure they are there, but maybe they don’t want to hassle with dating either. Too much work. It’s not that the married ones are great. I’ve heard some stories. I’m sure the women are just as bad. I think people, all people, think they can do better, think they deserve better. No one wants to settle. Plus many boomers are complete wackjobs.

  71. Julie says:

    As I read this blog I had to laugh…,as a 58 year old, who looks younger (or so I have been told, even by my doctor); I just got braces to correct my overbite. Many of my friends are divorced as their husbands cheated on them; even though their former wives are beautiful, in shape, fun and active woman. All of the woman initiated the divorce once the affair was discovered. Most of their husbands begged to come back home, but the cheating was too much for their former wives. Some of the woman have remarried or are engaged. Some have become, “Man Haters!” Almost all of their ex-husbands have a strained or non-exsistant relationship with their grown children.

    I have a handsome, inshape, family based Husband. He is over worked and worries about our finances to retire on. We have a good sex life…,but the spice is all but gone. I know the grass isn’t greener on the other side…..,but since modern technology (Facebook, cell phones, internet, etc.) I have had contact with several old boyfriends. All contacts were their initiations. I started getting all kinds of compliments & them bitching about their dried up spouses. I had to drop my Facebook Acct. & cut off all communication with these men.

    I think men are still interested in woman their age as they have more in common…,but many of their wives have cut them off in the bedroom and let themselves go. Not to say many men aren’t the 20-something they once were either. I believe it’s all in the Spice between 2 married individuals. Woman need Romance and Men need Sex on a regular basis. Even though it’s unfair….,Woman have to work to maintain their looks and Men have to maintain an income. Viagra probably has really changed the playing field allowing older men to seek younger woman, who are more interested in their finances than the man’s looks.

    Even though it would appear I have the perfect marriage…..,at times I love to hear all the compliments and interest of men when I have work out of town. No wonder men are tempted when traveling…..,especially if their wives have stopped having sex with them 10 to 20 years ago! In my case….,I have to make a conserted effort to, “Spice-up,” my relationship with my Husband as if I was a 25 year old! I have to find that, “Spark,” in our marriage and take care of my Man with a generous heart.

    As a post note….,just because an old girlfriend seems mildly friendly and interested in your current life in a platonic way; it’s sooooo creepy to assume that opens the door to sex-texting and sending lewd photos of your 59 year old body…..,ewwww; yuck! Lesson learned; I’ll stick to communicating with my girlfriends and cherish what I have at home!

    Life isn’t fair, but the choices you make can forever change the Journey. Make good choices and treat your spouse like you were still in your 20’s & 30’s and with alittle luck the 2 of you won’t have time to check out the neighbor’s grass. Or you married a jerk/bitxx (or) you married tooo young!

  72. Jane Wilder says:

    I am 61 and have been married for over 33 years to a man 5 years my junior. I would love to leave him and have my own life but I am afraid. No , I am not worried about money, I am independently wealthy . I am not worried about getting remarried (you couldn’t convince me of that for anything). I am worried about one of our daughter’s who is mentally challenged. I think she would find the whole thing devastating. I don’t care at all about male company, and don’t really see it any differently from female company since I have no interest in sex.

    I am overweight and tired. I am worn out by taking care of everyone but me, and having no one take care of me. And my husband is a nice guy , considered nice by everyone else too, intelligent and artistic. He is just boring and needs way too much attention to him, as opposed to what he is willing to put out for me. (I don’t mean sex-I mean work and not for money) I mean, he is a homebody who has no interest in wandering, while I feel I have spent almost 30 years being stuck taking care of him, his parents, our kids especially the handicapped one, while he was out doing his “art”. He had serious chronic health problems that I navigated for him for 30 years, finally last year he got an experimental procedure that saved his life and basically cured his illness. Now he has energy for all the stuff he couldn’t do for his art when he was sick. He doesn’t care that I want to wander and travel as he agreed we would.

    So, I want to leave but I am afraid–but not financially. I was never supported totally by him. When we were young we both worked. I worked when our oldest was little (despite our agreement that he would stay home while I finished college as I had stayed home while he did –he lasted a week and I never got to finish) our second child was born with brain damage . So I was unable to return to full time work after that.( I did however do unpaid full time work in the school system for her, with her and for other special needs children for over 20 years). During this time I inherited a large amount of stock and have supported both of us for most of the past 20 years as my husband was constantly incapacitated with illness. So i took care of him, his parents and our kids most of the time.

    So now I want to do what I want to do. I have compromised and done it his way for 30 years with him always promising my turn would come. It never did. As for sex. He was a sex addict for the first 15 years of marriage. He always wanted one more sex act. We could have sex three times a day for 15 years , all sorts of sex, yet he would insist on one more sex act, any one, that I didn’t want to do because it was painful. Nothing was every enough. Then he started accusing me of having affairs every time I got interested in anything. A monthly poetry group, a writers workshop, anything I liked was suspect. He on the other hand was with women all the time at art shows etc etc. I was never invasive or jealous, as I trusted him.

    He on the other hand made it so I had to quit everyone. He finally had an affair. I caught on after he had ended it. (we were still having sex then at least once a day) After that I made him get an HIV test . He said it was negative and denied the affair. (the woman wrote me a letter and he had admitted to a year of heavy petting while they were alone in his studio(yeah right alone adults a year no “sex” phooey). I didn’t care anyway, but by then I had had early menopause and sex was painful and caused infections, so if he wanted to pout ? fine.

    So tell me, why would I want to have a sexual relationship? For one thing you are wrong about finding a man. I am overweight and not great looking, and I have no trouble at all attracting men. Just a few weeks ago a fairly famous poet, four years my junior hit on me. I pretended it wasn’t happening and didn’t give him anything to go on. I mentioned my husband and kids and still he kept it up for weeks. He is financially well off, very popular with younger women, yet he was attracted to me and to my writing. He invited me to do a reading at a very prestigious venue and I said, sorry I couldn’t. So I think you put a whole lot of stock in youth that isn’t necessarily there, Intelligence and talent are still attractive to many intelligent attractive men. I would rather just be friends,

    So, I would say Eric, that you are just one bitter little man who got his fweewings hurt by some nasty woman? But from how you react maybe it was justified? Most of my women friends in their late 50s – 70s could care less about having a “man”. They are not lesbians, they just want to be on their own to do what they want for a change. To say it is about feminism in a bad way is kind of babyish. All feminism means is that women are actual people just like men. Most women did the family thing, and then it was over and they wanted to do something else. If their husbands would go along I think many might stay. But once you have raised kids, taken care of aging parents, and see your own mortality closing in, the idea of taking care of a hubby who just wants to sit around the house , just doesn’t cut it for intelligent, curious, inquisitive and adventurous women. They have had enough of stroking someone’s ego to last a lifetime.

  73. Leoismysign says:

    I’m a 55 yr. old widow, I lost my wonderful husband unexpectedly 12 years ago, he was 44yrs.young, and I had just turned 43. We had 3 grown children & a 5 month surprise baby when he passed. I knew she was my life & pulled me through it all. I don’t think I ever looked up to see how fast my life was going. Then at 50 I realized I was still single, I decided I wanted a Man in my life. Now I’m 55 and I often wonder If its still possible, I’ll get to the point…I met up with a long lost friend who I would see about every 5 years or so, ( he is a year younger than me) we always
    greeted each other very nice, and guess what? The SEX is great, I often say; he’s not there when I want him, and I’m there when he wants me, and it’s exciting, he keeps me guessing, No he’s not married or in any other relationship, we are having fun, he makes me smile, I make him laugh. and remember THE SEX IS WOW! who knows how long this will last , but guess what I still got it, I know he still Loves it, he’s the one who told me Sex keeps You Young, glad I took his advice, 55 is my prime, I still can’t decide about getting into a serious relationship, cuz Life is Fine with me right now.

  74. There is a really cool book, you might want to check it out called “Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow” by Marnia Robinson. It is about love and relationships. I think knowing what we know as older women, it really makes sense. I am happy for you. GO with it . Why not?

    [D: I'm familiar with the author. She thinks the problem with sex is the orgasm feels really good and makes you want more of it with your partner later. Her solution is sex without orgasm (male or female). Talk about a colossal shit test...]

  75. Jane Wilder says:

    “[D: I'm familiar with the author. She thinks the problem with sex is the orgasm feels really good and makes you want more of it with your partner later. Her solution is sex without orgasm (male or female). Talk about a colossal shit test...]”

    You obviously are not that familiar with the author or the work, because that is exactly what she is NOT saying. She is not saying that orgasm makes you want more, I am afraid you totally missed the boat on this one. What is this shit test you are talking about? and who are you?)

  76. Jane Wilder says:

    the Point of Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow is to keep sexuality alive in relationships. It talks about the honeymoon period where all is HOT and about why with habituation we lose it (In neurochemical terms). You may not find it interesting whoever you are, but I think people who are in long term relationships with family and kids would be really interested in ways to spice up their love life that don’t involve hookers or saran wrap.

  77. Jane Wilder says:

    Happy New Year, maybe you should really read Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow and lose the desperate attempt to remain young on the outside forever–cuz everyone who lives long enough looks old. I looked up the shit test. Big freaking deal. Asking a question to judge the reaction? Seems like a good idea to ask questions if you are considering a relationship?

    I finally talked to my husband about how bored I was with our life. It was intense for a few days as he felt very threatened. Being admired by salesmen doesn’t do it for me. I need to be involved with politics and culture and the arts to be happy. I am a published writer and a well received artist, so I am sure you and I run in different circles. My husband was a great father. Our kids are grown now. I don’t feel badly at all about being called grandma, you should live so long and still be married and not losing it all to some nip and tuck quack.

  78. Ya Boy Matt says:

    “I finally talked to my husband about how bored I was with our life.”

    A spinning hamster is worth a thousand words.

  79. Jane Wilder says:

    @ya boy matt:
    yup “boy” says it all. no concept of conflict resolution that works.

  80. TFH says:

    Jane Wilder,

    Exactly what benefits does your husband receive by being married to you? Think hard before you list them out.

    If you do not respond, I will take that as a loud and clear answer in itself.

  81. Chels says:

    Jane Wilder

    I’m sorry, but you’re absolutely deluded, and no one should take you seriously–after all, you’re the one bragging about how great it was to be a slut. And you’re 60+, which just makes me feel sorry for you.

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/defining-sluthood/

    You know, the whole slut thing is kind of funny. Men always think that sluts are easy, and being used. It never occurs to them that maybe these so called sluts are young women who like sex and variety too. I did.I loved sex when I was young . Why not? It is fun, feels good and I never felt used. I could choose who I wanted to have sex with. It was great. I didn’t have to choose the alpha guys if I didn’t want to, and mostly I didn’t cause they were terrible at sex. The beta guys were better, and you know what? Everyone was going around saying how the guys were using me, but I thought I was pregnant a few times, and it was the guys who were supposedly “using me” who were dying to marry me. I didn’t want to marry anyone, and was happy when the pregnancy scares resolved, but maybe liking sex with variety doesn’t make a young, not ready to be married woman a “slut” who is viewed as garbage as much as you all seem to think. There were plenty of jealous women who were being told sex is bad sex is bad, save yourself, who then , once married never could get over that nagging feeling that sex was dirty, and turned out to be headache prone, frigid women, who only had sex every so often to keep their marriageable man in line–I would hate to be a man married to a woman who is of the really good faker genre. Of course many might not even know their wives really hated sex as they had been trained (like seals) to flap their flippers, but someone who is really good at sex, is usually someone with practice, just like with most things.

    [D: Good find. This woman has gone from proud slut to denying her husband orgasm when they have sex.]

  82. Jane Wilder says:

    @TFH:
    What benefits does my husband gain from being married to me:
    He finds me attractive and loving. He enjoys my company and intellect. We read many books together and talk about them, and the ideas they trigger. I do all the financial work as well as bring in most of the money. He was injured when he was in the USAF over thirty years ago now. I took care of him through excruciating pain that was almost constant and got worse over the years until about a year ago when he had an experimental procedure, that I found for him by researching. He had two surgeries. One was 15 hours and the other 12 hours. Even after a month in the hospital we were required to stay in Cleveland (oh boy) for another month. During that month I carried his bloody pee bags, changed his dressings, washed the holes in his back that sometimes peed and bled at the same time for over 30 years from hospital to hospital. I never complained, I tried hard to make it as homey as possible for him by decorating the room for the holidays and getting him holiday clothes to wear over his tubes and bags. I have always helped him with his work. When he had an opening for his work, I made the food, the fliers, put out the press releases, all so that he would have a positive experience.

    We have one child who is handicapped. He loves the way that I have made her life possible in ways you probably wouldn’t understand , while keeping the house a safe and comfortable place for our other child and my husband. I worked while he went to college so he could devote himself to his studies which he loved. He loves the way I look and smell and speak, he loves my intellect, my kiss. He loves me for me. He benefits from feeling love and feeling the love he gets from me.

    He benefits socially, financially, emotionally, and physically from being married to me. He loves the way I care for him, our kids our home and our pets. He loves it that I am smart and interested in things beyond boob jobs, and face lifts and whether the UPS man flirts with me or not. He loves my work . (I am a writer) He loves my art. I am a painter. He benefits from my artistic nature and talents.

    He benefits from the time I give him to do the things he wants to do. He likes to throw pottery and make ceramic murals and sculptures, he also likes to hike , fish , and do archery. I give him time and space to do what he loves.

    He likes how I have done my share and more to help out with his parents and sister and other family members when he could not. He likes it that I have been loyal and faithful to him for well over thirty years. Yeah, I am over 60, what does that mean to you?

    To me being over sixty means I made it to this point. I know many who did not. I have been married mostly happily for over 30 years as well. I don’t think people can understand the frustrations and rewards that people go through who are deeply committed and deeply frustrated. It is really inevitable that stressors will make for ups and downs.
    I think the key to long term success in marriage, is talking. Simple yes. Easy, no, not hardly. But you have to.

    So how long have you been married and what does your spouse benefit from you???

    @Chels:

    How long have you been married and how can you show that my enjoying sex as a teen-ager hurt my married life? As a matter of fact it made it really clear that marriage was NOT all about sex. But sex was fun. What you think teenagers have sex because it isn’t fun? I liked sex. I have noticed that most of the girls who didn’t want to have sex when thy were young and saw it as slutty and dirty had a hard time transitioning to 30 years of sex with the same person after they got married. They had guilt and headaches. Their husbands were frustrated by their fear of sex as a dirty thing. If someone tells you only bad girl sluts like sex for long enough , even when you get the ring on your finger the doubts seem to remain for them.

    For me, by the time I married my husband and had kids I already knew that marriage was not primarily about sex. That sex is just one part of marriage. Why are you so afraid of 60, 70 , 80? COnsider the alternative, death, before you get to experience life in different decades. Nah, 60 is time to do all the things you couldn’t do when you were raising a family. Things that seem important at 20. 30. even 40 or 50 don’t seem that earth moving at 60. There are so many new things to discover. Looks fade, or if you are lucky become just backgound noise. Intelligence, compassion, truth, and an interest in being alive? They are just freed up.

    I love my husband, but if he just wanted to sit in the house, I would not be happy. I deserve to be happy just like everyone else. Women who have raised families deserve to have some interesting adventures in their 60s-100s. Why not? Why shouldn’t one expect their husband to be concerned about their welfare.

    Slut is just a word, and a pretty ignorant concept at that.

  83. Jane Wilder says:

    Read Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow. It really might help you.

    [D: I don't have to read her book; I've read her blog. The woman is an anti orgasm fanatic. Look at the reviews for the book and you will see that I am right. Clearly you haven't read it or you would know that what I wrote above is absolutely correct.]

  84. Ya Boy Matt says:

    There you have it TFH, she’s read BOOKS!

    Incidentally, how old were you when you had your daughter?

  85. Jane Wilder says:

    I could tell you were not a fan of books TFH. My kids were born when I was 32 and 38. I had another child who died when I was 22.

  86. Magarietha says:

    Hi, I think it all depends on how good the man is to you along the way. My husband was absolutely abusive to me all the way for 38 years and still going on. Half of that time I was the breadwinner. I was raised differently to him. We don’t get divorced. We are kind and our family is gregarious and they look out for one another. The black sheep in the family are usually more fondly tended to than the rest. But I married into a hard of heart family – I think people can be sociopaths without being the criminal kind. He just doesn’t care at all, not for his children, not for me – but he so needs me in his life. I need to fill in forms, do everything he is not adept with. Married too young, did not have the time to suss out anything. I reckon if you marry kindness you will stay interested forever and want to be with that person. Too much unkindness abounds. I do not believe that there’s two sides to a story – there’s a guilty party and an innocent party. No-one’s perfect, to be sure. But bullies abound, hence the lack of a need for them later. You’re really talking about boomers, and that’s exactly my point. Many of them, because of their rebelliousness from the outset became unkind, self righteous, people, horrible to be around. Why were my parents – the GI generation, so happy till the end – and kind to each other?

  87. Daz Monk says:

    There are lots of different ideas here and also lots of the same ideas; some convoluted, some marginally radical. Let’s try a simple approach shall we ladies?

    We are social animals and thus, we need to socialise; fact. And when I say; ” socialise, ” I mean it in it’s most confined sense; the human touch and compassion. In other words; we have a need to feel like we belong; we need to feel the loving touch of a person that we know cares about us.
    And this response is irrespective of whether or not we have had an enjoyable time before with our previous partner(s).

    A woman at 55 years old and above, will probably have let herself go – and this ladies is most certainly an unattractive ( in every sense of the word ) prospect for most men. Men deal in beauty; and although beauty is a matter of perspective; we need to find our lady friend attractive; fact! Twenty stone in weight and short cropped hair like a twelve year old boy, is most definitely at the lower end of what most men would accept as an ideal suitor. Before you ‘ go on one ‘ and start calling me; ” shallow; ” you must accept that we are driven ( as males ) to females that we find attractive; and that normally, ordinarily, means a younger, less weightier, longer haired counterpart.

    Women have their hair cut short, because they themselves have lost interest in making an effort, they pile on the pounds and it instantly becomes a huge turn-off. This ladies, is a possible reason as to why women in their mid to late 50’s; ” prefer ” to stay alone. It’s not because of some convoluted idea or a many faceted variable; it’s simple because men aren’t showing any interest; or at least men in their own age bracket. Men older, don’t have long for this world and aren’t really a viable option. What good would it do for a 55 year old lady to accept the advances of a 65 year old male; when she knows that just as she is building a bond with him, he goes off and dies on her?

    If a woman has lost interest in her appearance and in the way in which she presents herself ( in the wider scheme of things ); then it’s not really to difficult to conceive the idea that a man isn’t interested either; for the exact same reasons. If a 55 year old lady has kept herself in shape and looks every part a ‘ classy lady, ‘ then no matter what any chart says; she will not be short of men vying for her attention; that ladies, is fact.

    In conclusion then and in it’s simplest format: Two 55 year old woman; both single. One of these women is of a larger set build with short ” manageable ” hair and the other lady; well she has kept herself in shape and has enough hair as to be able to do something with it; something that helps to ‘ catch ‘ the eye of men… In it’s simplest format ladies; yes; it’s down to appearances. If YOU can’t be bothered about YOU, then neither can we. Simples; squeak! ;-)

  88. Carey Criden says:

    Feminism is garbage. Pure garbage. My wife cheated on me and then cleaned me out in divorce court. All I did was support her. She never worked. Disgusting. I was a loyal husband. The divorce laws cause divorce and cause women to leave. The marriage contract is worthless. A contract to sell a used tire is more enforceable.

    Thinking about what was done to me makes me sick. And these aging women do it with impunity. They can say whatever they want in court–they get away with it. They want their cake and to eat it also: (1) old fashioned damsel in distress and the commensurate divorce laws that go along with that (2) and the modern notion of Feminism. They get it both ways. There are more women in medical college and law school than men–but they are the so-called discriminated against group.

    Feminists and their filthy divorce lawyers are immoral. All the garbage learned in college has caused a breakdown of values. And Feminism is at the lead of the pack. How sad.

    I have seen it all in the law. Divorce law is the lowest form of garbage. Whatever the hatred is of lawyers, when it comes to divorce law, it is accurate.

  89. Anonymous says:

    I am a little put-off by the proclamations that all young girls “are sluts” or just “wnat to have fun”. This isn’t true, and in fact many studies find a correlation between promiscuity and mental problems. This is also based on my anecdotal experience, in that after a pump-in-dump, most girls I see are in fact quite depressed.

    As Roissy, Dalrock, and contributors at the Spearhead have explained ad nauseum, most women aren’t promicuous by nature – they’re *hypergamous*. This means they must compulsively have sex with men they perceive as being higher status than they are – or, if they’re in a relationship, than their boyfriend/husband is. Now, hypergamy made sense back in hunter-gather societies of 50-150 people that had strict regulations on behavior. But in our modern, individualistic society, it often results in promiscuity.

  90. Karen says:

    Im 50 and a widow….. no freakin way I’m done…… Perhaps they get discourage and quit looking, or have bad marriages, and say NEVER AGAIN!!

  91. donalda says:

    Well, seeing that most men are done with most women by 40 it makes since biologically that older women have no more interest in men, doesn’t it? Nature is most merciful in this regard. Why allow women to pine away for men who don’t want them anyway and are chasing women in their 20s and 30s?

    [D: Men aren't done with loving wives by 40. If this were true the rate of divorce would increase as wives age, but in fact exactly the opposite occurs.]

  92. LikesHavingFun says:

    I am a widow 61 years old or young …..however you would like to vew it…. I lost my husband two and one half years ago… we were happy and loved one and another……I have had a gentleman who is 60 (previously married to a woman 14 years younger) pursue me for almost a year….I never saw a man go to such lengths to make a woman notice him…(It has been kind of fun… I do like him….but not ready to let him know how much yet),,,,,,,,I have had a young man of 43 ask me out.. he tells mutual friends….”I am just wayy too cool and more fun then any woman he has ever met”….. I recently had a guy 54 suggest we should start dating…to which I politely declined……….I also have a friend who is 63 (and quite rich) hint that he believes we could be a great match……In short I think,,,, and it is only my opinion…that how you act, look, feel and love are all related to who you attract….I would not love a man who was so shallow he didn’t consider a persons heart as well as their looks…but, in saying that….. I do believe you should look your best…. I work out several times a week, wear a ponytail and a baseball hat many days….(or a ball gown as I am wearing tonight) and have a bounce to my step… I am athletic, go kayaking, walking, dancing and Just Enjoy living life and having fun…..A Lady who is fifty recently told me she was on one of those dating sites and how the 60 to 65 year olds are all over her to meet….. I really had to laugh….he is eleven years my junior and I am sure a very nice person…but weighs close to 250 lbs….has major health issues and I am sorry to say probably would be considered to be rather homely….according to her…. a woman of my age wouldn’t be sought after on those dating sites……..I guess I can understand that…because I certainly wouldn’t want to be saddled with some old, fat, lazy, worn out guy…(as many men and women in their late fifties or sixies are ) .but I do know I would like to be with someone closer to my age…. Anyway…. I am going to give the 60 year old just a wee bit more time to see what he can come up with next and if he is still making me laugh….. I am planning to “have my way with him” and maybe line him up for being my next husband… hopefully the last one of my life..(and I will do my best to adore him and make him the happiest man on earth)…….I believe being married and being in Love is the Best Gift God can give us…I would hope to have that one more time in my life…For the last time…But, if he doesn’t work out and the right person doesn’t come along… I will still be happy … We only get one life I am not planning on wasting it……… Best of luck to everyone still looking for love……..and if you really want to be adored….maybe you should consider a person close to your own age….who didn’t walk away from a marriage but stayed until the “death do us part” ending………….

    Ps… I wouldn’t say I am beautiful or even all that pretty (well maybe a little bit) but I do have a strength of character and a Love for Life……..and a good hearty laugh!!!!

  93. Donald Drew says:

    Data means nothing to me, but I have a lot of experience with women over 55. A woman at 55 truly is at the point of decline in most cases. If a woman has some money via divorce or family, she is very protective of that nest egg and is not different than a man about protecting it. The new factor now is the terrible economy. If I meet one more “real estate agent” I may shoot myself. This is no longer a viable job. Most women I date 55 and older are bigger players than any men I have ever known. Most are broke and beginning to panic about how they will live. You have to just be cool and you will find out what she really wants. Biggest red flag is the word…”soulmate”. At 55 if they are still looking for that, send them out to sea as fast as possible. Most of the ladies I date over 55 are looking to remarry. I am talking about 99.0% and most start by saying, “if I meet the right man”. My biggest problem is that most women over 55 are just not that appealing. For that reason alone, my interest in dating has started to dwindle. In my opinion, there are going to be a handful of women that will be able to manipulate some fool into marriage, but most will hit 60 alone and really, who in their right mind wants to be married at 60. Probably both men and women at 60 want to be left alone to enjoy their last days doing exactly and only what they want to do…..I just turned 60 and my “newest girlfriend is 57″. She looks pretty good, is active, retired with a pension. The only thing that scares me is she often tells me I am the most wonderful man she has ever known…arrggg. Six months and she has never brought up the M word. So my advice to women that do not want to sit home every night…stay away from the M word and just let the fool swallow the hook before you jerk it. Never mention taking it to the next level…bad bad idea. In my opinion, women 55-60 have about a 1% chance of landing a partner before total lack of interest sets in. I base this information on my dating about 70 women 55-58.

  94. Louise Jones says:

    Comments have been entered below. I will re-enter those statements. I feel that you have been biased as NON-HISPANIC WHITE FEMALES are not the only females that exist. As a result, I feel that your research is racially motivated and unrealistic, especially since they aren’t the only females God made. To me, you can’t be objective because you are displaying a form of being Male Chavinistic. Your research is an insult to all females including the population you used to disgrace. You make then sound as though they are only good enough to receive your sperm and satisfy your sexual urges or lust. What about a 55+ female and her intellect? Does it count for anything except to be ready as a sex tool? Are you saying that woman is made to be good enough for a sex tool, and, when she is a Senior-Citizen she has no value? Seems more a description for the male especially since the commercials literally are begging men to get some VIAGRA for ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION!! How about the women of significance in your life; do they fit the same mold as those in the research as told to you by their significant other? I want to suggest that you go back to the Bible in Genesis, check the age factors of Sarah and Abraham. It will probably amaze you to see how much Feminity Sarah had when she conceived Issac. Look in the New Testament and see where John the Baptist father was dumbfounded, couldn’t speak because he didn’t believe the Angel of God who told him that his elderly wife would conceive, and, bring forth a son. Based on her and his age, he didn’t believe God could do that. As a sign of what God could do, John’s father was made unable to speak until John was born. There was a big family dispute as to what his name should be, and, everyone looked at him wishing he could speak; there was a pause, and, someone asked him out of courtesey, and, for the first time since he and his elderly wife had an answer. He said his son was to be named John after what the angel had told him to do. So you nor any article can judge the desires of a woman of 55+ or a male of the same age. They may have adjusted to their lives without active sex due to their health status. Finally, if they are widowed, they may feel they can’t find another spouse like their deceased one, so they adjust to another form of enhancing their lives. Without a doubt, a large majority of them devote themselves to the LORD JESUS IN THANKING GOD FOR SENDING HIS SON TO BE A SACRIFICE FOR THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND!!!

  95. Brad says:

    Hi all good discussion. I have noticed a trend since my father turned into his mid sixties and now mid eighties. He has found women who dont really want to get married but do want P/T companionship . They both keep their own places and seperate lives so they can enjoy their individual hobbies and friends. They go together during many times of the year to take trips and cruises together. They seem to enjoy each others company while having a lot of fun together..

  96. brad says:

    Some of Donalds points are true. My father and his live apart girlfriend have been together 12 years and they have a lot of fun together, taking trips and cruises all over the world. They have their own places and own finances and they wouldn’t think of marriage. They need their time away from each other to spend time with friends and hobbies. They have a lot of fun together and seem very happy. Why get married after 60? unless your codependant and your looking for someone else to take care of you.

  97. JoKarger says:

    I will be turning 55 in March and am divorced, mother of an 11 year old (yes, I had him later on..). I work full-time as an academic and only plan to stop when the mental facutlies decline to the point when I can’t do the work. My son’s father moved out of the country and only sees our son once a year. I work full time and parent full time and therefore do not have the time to cultivate a relationship. From reading these posts, I think I better resign myself to permanent single hood as clearly no man will want me. Fifty- five is looking more depressing every day.

  98. MAX a writer says:

    “We are just tired of all of the work that comes with being a woman these days and never getting any time to do what we want to do. It’s always time to go to work, and then come home, cook the dinner, clean up the dinner, and then make the men a treat while they watch TV. Of course this is after years of fitting in t ball practice supervising homework, brownie cub scout meetings teen angst, by age 55 we are done- with everything. I spend a good deal of time psyching myself up to do everything that still needs doing. Honestly all I really want to do is rent a hotel room or lie in a hammock somewhere where no one knows where I am.”

    I hear this from women ALOT. If a woman is happily married at 50 plus then of course she isn’t done with men because she loves her husband. However if she is widowed, or more likely divorced, then they are done with men as live in partners but are open to f*ck buddies or short term relationships in which they DO NOT live together. After decades of working and doing housework, laundry, cooking, etc, older women don’t want to have to go through that routine yet again with yet another man.

    Jane Wilder, wow! You’ve done ALOT for your husband during all those years of illness and pain. There are many spouses out there who would just up and leave their partner. You sound like a principled woman of strong character and your husband is very lucky to have you. It sounds like you two have something increasingly rare in today’s world – a long and loving marriage. Congratulations. May the readers of this blog be so lucky.

    With your blessings and good wishes, may I also be as lucky.

  99. I find these comments extremely amusing. It seems as if the tables have turned for the women in there 50s. I grew up as an ugly duckling – meaning I am one of those nice guys that always respected women, and was always the “last to pick” and always mistreated. I grew to become a bit more handsome as I aged and I agree with some of the earlier comments that imply that women are opportunists almost to the point of being parasitic. I also believe that the statistics given barely scratch the surface – there are many cultural considerations that are missing here.

    1. Mid teens-mid twenties: Usually forming no meaningful relationships with men, but enjoying rejecting men for sport. Typically experimenting with lesbianism.

    2. Mid twenties-mid thirties: Usually shacking up with some complete loser and maybe having kids with him.

    3. Mid thirties-mid forties: Usually they find some desperate mangina who’ll pay for everything she’s done in the past. After about a decade or so, she cleans the poor dupe out in a divorce case and repeats step #2; now though as a liberated ‘cougar’.

    I was rejected a lot when I was younger for that good looking guy loser with nothing going for him. When I am single I am always pursued by women who have kids. I have been married twice and in both marriages I was taken to the cleaners (sad thing is that I am always asked to be the stepdad) and I was the one that initiated both divorces to get away from an abusive relationship – most women don’t hit, but their verbal abuse can be very harmful. I also find it interesting that women say men want them to take care of their children. I never wanted anyone to take care of my children – I can do that myself as long as I’m not fighting my child’s mother in court for custody or child support so I can take care of them when they are with me. Funny, they both fought very hard to stay married to me for the benefits of being with a military veteran. One comment was right – the court systems are archaic and biased against men.

    It is no surprise to me that these baby boomers are complaining about something they turned down when they were younger. All the court systems are in their favor, they have worked their marriage material husbands into the grave, and are still using any available men for their own benefits. Really, what does a man get from a marriage nowadays? Marriages are rarely mutually beneficial. This is the 21st century. Marriage as an institution was a well oiled machine in the 50s when men and women had clearly defined roles that were mutually beneficial. It’s funny to hear about women complaining about having to take care of someone for the rest of their life. What about the men who have worked their entire life – it’s a partnership people. If you want anything else (man or woman), you are being selfish.

    Women are probably being rejected by the same type of men that they rejected years ago. Men who have figured out that they are actually worth more than how much is in their bank account, how many degrees they have, how many miles they can run, or how good they look. I will certainly never consider dating a woman my age or older. I grew up with them and I know how devious they can be. Lets face it – if you are over 50 and you are not taking care of yourself, then don’t expect someone to hit on you who genuinely wants a healthy relationship with you (physically and mentally).

    Also, lets be real – this article is about single white women over 50. Other cultures have different approaches to dating when you are older – some even cherish family and marriage a lot more. I wonder if you look at demographics would you see the same trend – I doubt it.

    Women say they want their “soul mate” or their “companion”, but what they really want is what they have wanted since we started walking upright – the “bigger and better deal” or *hypergamous* as one poster put it. Women aren’t done with men after 55, they just can’t find the “bigger better deal” that’s primarily beneficial to them anymore (and the men aren’t looking for them).

    So these older ladies will stay divorced depending on why they are single in the first place. If they are single due to the loss of someone they don’t feel can be replaced, they will remarry if they find someone they connect with just as much or more than their previous mate (bigger better deal). If they are receiving alimony or social security, I’m sure they will jump on the first stable and secure guy that offers more financial stability (bigger better deal). If they are single because they can’t find someone who is able to look past their “wrinkles” like their previous mate, as soon as they can find someone who appears to accept them they will jump (the bigger better deal). Either way, it will always be what’s in it for them. Maybe I’m wrong and bitter, but I haven’t seen much to change my opinion – women have always stayed with men for their benefit. Of course this has been the balance of nature for a long time, but has changed a bit since men are living longer and both sexes have more options. So, I will just sit back, date my 20 years younger love of my life, cook, clean, work, take care of my children, and laugh at the desperate women who had what they are seeking now years ago but made poor selfish choices and are complaining about it now.

  100. KeyboardCowboy says:

    i am a 35 year old male, athletic, good looking etc. i have always been attracted to women over 50, I don`t know why, it is not a fetish, I just absolutely adore the company of more mature women and I find everything about women over 50 just incredibly sexy.
    There can be potential for a very special relationship between a younger man and an older woman. Mature women have a way of making me feel comfortable about being myself. They have been through lots of life experiences, and all of the mature women I have been with have been great conversationalists. I have had intimate relationships with woman as old as 72, All of the relationships evolved from a friendship, a honest mutual friendship that had no preconceived notions. The age difference made past relationships seem taboo, public displays of affection would draw double takes from onlookers, having to explain our friendship to other family members, including children who were usually older than me, but when we were alone together it was pure magic!
    I would usually take my older girlfriends on weekend getaways. I will never forget the weekend trip to a casino with Audrey. Audrey is 67 years old and has been a really good friend of mine since we met while sitting together on a long greyhound bus trip in 2005. We live 8 hours apart, so we make plans to see each other about once a month. I rented us a nice suite in Niagara Falls for the weekend a few years ago, great view, amazing food, a beautiful woman AND a $10,000 jackpot! We were so excited just to be with each other that the jackpot win didn`t faze us. We went back to the room and made love for hours, then lay in each others arms make plans for a 2 week trip with our winnings. We ended up going to Aruba for 2 of the funnest weeks of my life. I have had plenty of good times with women over 50!

  101. Donald Drew says:

    Must reply to Keyboard Cowboy…..hahaha. You are a funny guy. First, if I am to believe this wild tale, which I do not. I can understand the old gal riding the bus as she probably had her drivers license suspended. But a 27 year old boy-man meeting a 59 year old women on a romantic greyhound bus (long trip your words), well, this conjures up a vision of Ratso in the movie Midnight Cowboy. Meeting on a greyhound bus disqualifies you from this post. That’s all I can say, I have to go throw up now………

  102. female and over 55 says:

    Honestly people. Why all this negativity? Brad has got it right, We are not done with men. We love you all, but want to have a life with and without you. One can have a relationship without living together. Adults change and hopefully mature as they age, and become a little set in their ways as they get older. Perhaps it is easier for family, friends and the relationship to have some space.

    I was married for over 20 years to a man – and that worked for me in my youth, Things happen, life changes and we move on. btw my 85 year old mother had a wonderful time with her partner until he passed away. They lived separately. Seems I am following the same path and am having a great time with my partner for last few years, and we live in separate cities. We are having a pile of fun.

  103. female and over 55 says:

    :-) Just realized how my narrative reads. My reference to partner is to male partners. No need for any lesbian comments.

  104. Kat says:

    Good God! I didn’t realize men could be such panty waists! Grow up!

  105. Bored & Surfing the Net says:

    This article only pertains to middle aged white women, and whites are a dying race.

  106. Aqua Net says:

    YES. Women are done with men after 55 IF they are not happily married to one at 55. Divorced and otherwise single women in their 50s might like to date or even play house with a guy, going on vacations together etc, but not marry him. Just like the commenter “female and 55″ wrote.

    We women like our space. Perhaps even moreso than men.

  107. CAPPIE51 says:

    Oh my, reading this forum is like a death sentence to women of a certain age. I am 60, very sexually inclined and am dating men 16 to 30 years younger than me. Just saying…

  108. Donald Drew says:

    Here I go again, just have to reply to Cappie51. I have yet to find an old broad that was not sexually inclined. These over 60 gals are starving for sex, but alas the reality of who wants to have crazy sex with a woman 60 and older, really. As for her stating she dates guys 16-30 years younger, well, the rules apply to both men and women that date these younger people, as long as you are paying they will be available. If my “sex” choice is a 60 plus year old woman for free or a 35 year old for $300, all I can say, does the $300 include tip…….hand me a hammer, time to brake the piggy bank…..

  109. John m muriithi says:

    True

  110. Aqua Net says:

    Donald, nobody is saying that 60 year old women are done with SEX. Some most certainly are not, although I attribute old people’s obsession with sex to our culture’s obsession with youth and signs thereof. We are saying that old women are finished with living with men day in and day out in a married-couple-like fashion.

    Old women who are widowed or divorced often say, “I’ve spent my life waiting hand and food on other people, now I want space”.

    Are they up for a good shag every now and then? Sure.

    A little romance? Probably.

    Perhaps a NON live-in boyfriend? Could be.

    Married and/or living together? FORGEDDABOUTIT!

  111. Glenda says:

    Interesting comments here! I am over 55 and NOT over men..I truely like being with a man. I am dating and the men I meet (thank heavens) don’tt want someone they can’t relate to. The music, the “good old years”, sharing life’s ups & downs, talking about a variety of interesting topics. I’m not a beauty queen by any sense but being attracted to each other can be about their personalities, laughing, sharing and then the sparks can fly. As far as not wanting to marry again, my issue is financial. Fortunately, I have had a good career and have a couple of retirements coming in a few years and do not want to give that up. I would totally agree that the men don’t want to either. Let’s sing, dance and see the world..live together, maybe…share our space sometimes, yes. But it is nice to have a man in my life. Hope women don’t give up if they don’t want to. It may be more difficult to find people, but join in the “technology” of on-line dating or groups that do things you like to do (volunteer, bike riding, archaelogy digs, travel, wine tasting, dancing). If you don’t want to…then so be it. Enjoy!

  112. Dragonfly says:

    Wow! Highly interesting conversation. I am a 54 year old divorced female and I would concur with those who say that fun, sex and companionship are what I’m looking for at this stage of the game. I am financially independent and not looking for cohabitation or someone to take care of nor someone to take care of me.

    Unfortunately, we are all subject to the same biological imperatives that govern us in our early years of mating. (Men are attracted to curvy, youthful women with longer hair and Women are looking for a strong, stable man.) Biological imperatives aside, I think emotional connection must play a part here, especially in later age. Are both sexes not looking for that connection that makes us feel alive and valued?

    Dating is certainly more of a challenge in mid life, it seems. My personal experience has been that men my age are (at least initially) looking to date younger, so that leaves my pool of choices in the 60ish range. I have explored the dating websites (since I live in a very isolated small town) and I was quite appalled to find that I, too seemed to gravitate towards men who attracted me physically…despite what the profile said. I thought I was more evolved than that! That said, I have been communicating for over 3 years with a man I met on a dating site who is 6 years my junior and we have developed a great friendship. (Haven’t yet met because of extreme distance and I’m not sure he was ever physically attracted.) And, I dated another man a couple of times who is also younger…but no physical chemistry on my part. So….the dance goes on…

    I enjoyed reading all of your posts, and hope to read more in the future. We all seem to struggle in one way or another….and we all need connection. Best of luck to all. :-)

  113. Happy says:

    There are some really insightful comments here. I’m a 50 y/o still-attractive divorced woman. Five years ago my husband met a 23 year-old online and left me to make a life with her. A year or so after the divorce, I started dating. I found that men my age are usually looking for women much younger than them. Some of them seemed to want to relive their 20’s. After a couple of months, I took myself off the market and immersed myself in my own interests and my friendships. A surprising thing happened when I hit menopause last year, and it happened almost overnight. I lost all interest in men and romance. I like men as a gender, and I value them as friends, but that’s it. I just want to continue to do the things I like doing without the hassle of romance. I believe this is biological. The chemical that used to compel me to mate has all but disappeared. Life is so much more enjoyable now. I have a much more “Live and let live” attitude about everything.

  114. Donald Drew says:

    @ Happy. Very honest post. “Live and let Live”. I am Happy for Happy. I can not imagine a 50 plus year old man wanting to be with a 23 Year old girl. I guess they could get some tattoos and piercings…..

    @ Dragonfly. Would you call communicating with a man for 3 years that you have never met, “A Commitment”. LOL, Be careful with those dating sites….you can be whoever you want to be on a dating site. I joined one one time and went out on about 10 dates…Not one date was within the stated age on their profile. Makes for an uncomfortable evening……

  115. Mattie says:

    I actually think it might be true – that older women are done with men – because I know I am. Like “Happy,” I lost all sexual interest in men during menopause. And although I still continue to attract men – not nearly as many as when I was younger – I find that I lose interest once they want to have sex or a romantic relationship. (I really enjoy my work colleagues and friends – male and female alike – and discussions/joking around, activities etc. ) I think that both genders take things much too personally. I am no longer producing eggs,so therefore not as attractive to a large portion of men. I am no longer producing eggs so I no longer desire men as I used to. (Like Happy, I find that I am actually happier now and enjoying friends and intellectual pursuits much more.) One of the things that I think we’re dealing with is that humans are living longer than before and divorce is acceptable. We don’t have guidelines for many of the things we are experiencing in our current culture. If you look back 100 years (or less,) the concept of dating in one’s 50’s didn’t even exist. 100 years ago, I’d be dead by now or taking care of my grandkids (or great grandkids) so the younger members of my family could go out and work and support us all. I wouldn’t have the leisure or luxury of thinking about myself and I certainly wouldn’t be contending with any male expectation that I’d be interested… So, while the scientists and psychologists are working out their theories on 50+ women, I am just going to be comfortable with myself and enjoy the things I do.

  116. Abby says:

    There are some great comments here, and a lot of age bashing and sexism. I am 55, never married and not feeling so great about myself because of a very bad relationship I had a while back. As a result, I am quite turned off by the idea of dating. I also have to agree that a lot of the men in my age group think their s*** doesn’t smell! So, yes, I am a tad disillusioned. However, I have a number of friends who are the same age as me who look fabulous, and are very attractive to men. My mom also has a lot of single female friends in their 60s and 70s who have no problems finding decent men to date. Many are dating younger men. No, not boy toys, mind you; these guys are only five or so years younger. But it just goes to show you what a bunch of bunk many of these comments are. The point is, the idea that women over a certain age can no longer attract men, even worthwhile ones, is nonsense. I am sure I would be able to, too, if I felt better about myself and wasn’t frankly so gun-shy. The bottom line is, your attitude about yourself determines how attractive you are to other people, no matter what your age. If you genuinely feel good about and value yourself, that transcends any and everything.

  117. Dragonfly says:

    Well said, Abby…thanks for your comments.

  118. so very much true says:

    it seems that way for me. as a straight man that was married twice, i was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on them and they both did cheat on me. i was very committed to them as well and was very happy at the time. then again, had i known that they were filthy whores i would have never married them in the first place. now that i go out a lot, i always seem to meet the nastiest women now with their no good attitude. the way they have become now, it does make it that much harder to meet them. i am now in my late fifties, and it should not have anything to do with that. i see the most ugliest men when i go out to these clubs on the weekends, and that does make me sick to see them have it. i consider myself an average good looking man, and i would have never thought that this would happen to me. then again, these type of women are very filthy pigs today for taking advantage of these men that have money. the sad thing is, we have a combination of lesbians and whores today which does add to the problem. there are just too many low life, piece of shit women out there now that are destroying this world. i will certainly blame the women out there today, not us good straight men that are looking to meet a good woman for us now. years ago, the women back then had class and they were a lot easier to meet than now.

  119. Abby says:

    WOW! I just had to reply to so very much true. I am convinced that people attract what they give out. Like attracts like. Positivity attracts positive people; a negative attitude will attract negative people and experiences. You are obviously an extremely bitter, angry man. No wonder you are attracting “nasty” women! Good grief, my dear sir! There are good women (and men) out there. But with that kind of anger and obvious hatred of women (whom you seem hellbent on generalizing), you certainly will not attract them.

  120. YBM says:

    Abby, don’t throw stones in a glass house, a man’s memory goes longer than one post, which apparently you couldn’t figure out. Considering your diatribe is 3 posts above the one you attempted to shame (and failed to do).

  121. Abby says:

    Excuse me, I was hardly “throwing stones is a glass house,” nor was I attempting to “shame” anyone. Quite the contrary, I take responsibility for my own dilemma, by way of holding myself accountable for for my own poor choices and circumstances. As I pointed out, the way we feel about ourselves dictates the kinds of people we will attract, good, bad or indifferent, regardless of gender or age. This also dictates the choices we make. As such, those who are well-adjusted will refrain from choosing dysfunctional partners, while those who feel like crap about themselves will gravitate toward toxic people like moths to flames.

    This man obviously is bitter and angry. He actually called the women he has been encountering “pieces of shit,” “whores,” etc. I don’t see where the concept of his “memory” has anything to do with his quite obvious bitterness and anger toward women. That said, I refuse to generalize and blame an entire gender for my lot in life. The bottom line is, not all men (or women, for that matter) are a-holes. I just happened to have chosen the ones who were. Thus, I and only I am responsible for that. This guy obviously does not share my sentiments. If that’s “throwing stones in a glass house,” then consider me guilty as charged. I repeat, we are all responsible for our choices in life. Not all people are jerks. However, if we keep attracting jerks, then perhaps we feel that’s all we deserve…and it’s time to look inward to discern why!

  122. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    My brother recently remarried at 58 to a very attractive woman his own age. He had been divorced for 10 years from a woman who claimed she didn’t want any more children (my brother did) only to get pregnant by her paramour 3 months after the separation. Needless to say, my brother was kind of shell shocked by the divorce. He dated a lot, but confessed to me that he couldn’t believe the low quality of women that were available. He slept with most of them, which led to a LOT of unnecessary, pointless, and truly anacephalic drama, so he swore off women.

    His wife had a parallel experience. She dated a lot of [by her description] substandard guys and decided that doing without was better what the dating market was offering her. My new sister-n-law is easily in the top .1% (not top one percent but top point one percent) of women her age measured by physical attractiveness. My brother was a fine looking man in his twenties and thirties but has seen better days. I’ve always wondered whether, if they had met forty years ago, she would have given him the time of day.

    According to my brother, he and his wife are burning up the sheets. He had been through with women and she had been through with men. The brutal fact is, there isn’t much out there for either men or women. It is truly providential that my brother and his wife found each other, and i can see why so many decide to take their chips and cash out.

  123. curly says:

    Do women at 55 lose interest in laundering a man’s underwear – surprisingly this seems to coincide with the children leaving for college.

  124. Dragonfly says:

    @Donald Drew: No…I certainly do not consider a 3 year phone friendship a commitment by any stretch. I have heard that some people (maybe the majority?) of older folks hedge on their true age on dating websites, but I was always honest. I always wanted to look good for my age, not old for 40! I guess some do that to beat the maximum age setting on younger people’s profiles?

    @asinusspinasmastican: I agree…there doesn’t seem to be too many good choices out there for men or women. By middle age, most of us are somewhat set in our ways, and with menopause, waning sex drives and diminished physical attractiveness….sometimes, it hardly seems worth it! Out of curiosity, how did your brother meet his wife?

    Bottom line seems to be…..finding acceptable dating partners, companionship and love past 50 is a challenge.

  125. Abby says:

    In my observation, it’s a challenge for anyone – no matter what their age – to connect with others on any kind of meaningful level these days. I have a number of younger friends, relatives and colleagues of both genders who are having a rough go of it. I just think that we live in a very disconnected, narcissistic society due to a variety of factors, not the least of which is the Internet. But as I stated in my earlier post, I am convinced that a positive attitude can and will draw positive people and scenarios, and vice versa.

  126. Elbeec says:

    I have been divorced for 11 years, dated 4 men since, one especially serious and now? Done – 3 out of the 4 relationships I’ve had were with quite younger men, my ex is 8 years younger than me. The older men want younger women and the younger men want younger women. Fact of life, so I quit the love scene, I got the hint. Heart is closed for business

  127. Elbeec says:

    oh, and I’m 51 – have friends and family say to me “Oh you’ll meet someone some day” My some day has passed – or they say, “oh you don’t look your age, you look younger” – fact is, I AM NOT YOUNGER

  128. Donald Drew says:

    @ Elbeec. Gee girl, sounds like you had a bad day. You have just entered the death spiral of women over 50. If you in fact are just 51 and attractive, you just need to refocus on what you really want out of a relationship. There is a large pool of men 55-58 that have not yet learned their lesson and looking hard for a good 48-53 old woman. I strongly believe your days of be courted by 40 year old men is OVER. If you can put your expectations in check, you may find a good companion, but doubt marriage is in your future. A good companion can bring great benefits like travel, dinners, and trust. Bottom line you need to back away and put a plan in place that involves not just “a man”, but what you enjoy doing. If you have children, spend a lot of time with them. Vacation with them, and work on your general health (gym & diet). Build up that esteem and maybe a little nip and tuck is in order. So much more to life than having “a Man”. Spend a few bucks and take a look at some dating sites…You make it sound like dating younger men is important. Forget that unless you have a lot of money and want to be used. Focus on 55-58 year old men, their front doors are open. Not the law, but in general..once you hit 55-57, that is when you can really claim “DONE”……see you in the recreation room at the retirement center :) Chin up girl, use that AARP card for movie discounts..lol.

  129. AsinusSpinasMasticans says:

    @Dragonfly – My brother met my sister-in-law online. They chatted for about a month, then he told her; “I’m going to be at this bookstore tonight between 7:30 and 10. If you want to meet face to face, come on down. If not, OK. I’m a bookstore kind of guy, not a club kind of guy.” She came down and met him, and liked what she saw. The rest is history.

    Women over 50 who have kept their weight down, dress well, and still have a nice figure are in high demand by men their own age, but they are not in the position to make the kinds of demands they were able to make in their 20s and 30s. The ones that realize this can end up with a happy ending. The ones that listen to their hamsters are better off cultivating female friends and taking up interesting hobbies. BTW I have another [white] friend in his late 50s who just married a black woman in her late 50s. She looks like Freda Payne.

  130. Abby says:

    Many of these posts are rather disheartening, and in my experiences inaccurate. It seems that many are saying that A.) Older women should take what they can get because they have run out of options and B.) Older women have run out of options because they just don’t look as hot as they used to. Which would lead one to conclude that many believe the media hype that women over 55 are washed up, and looks are the primary basis for attracting men. That’s pretty silly, and is a disservice to decent men (they do exist) who are looking for companionship based on something deeper than whether a woman looks like a Playboy centerfold. I have a friend who is 45 who recently was dumped by her 56-year-old boyfriend for a 55-year-old woman, because he reached a point in his life where he didn’t want to be with a woman who has young kids. As for me, in my younger days, I put up with a lot more crap from men (who were frankly not worthy of any decent woman) because of my misguided need to please men. Thankfully, I have become far more selective in my “old age,” and have developed a much lower threshold for BS. Many will argue that I will wind up alone. But I’d rather be alone than put up with gratuitous nonsense. That said, there are more single people over 50 than ever. In fact, I just read a report stating that there are more single men in this age group than women! And there are lots of mature men who actually do prefer women close to them in age, due to shared life experiences, lifestyle compatibility, etc. As I mentioned in my original post, I know many, many women who are over 55 who are dating up a storm; many are even dating somewhat younger men. These guys are not rejects for whom these ladies are “settling,” either. So there is lots of hope, gals!

  131. 7man says:

    Overactive hamsters eventually up with cats as pets.

  132. AsinusSpinasMasticans says:

    @Abby –
    Get real.
    With the possible exception of Amparo Grisales (NSFW – age 58), no woman over 55 is going to appear in a Playboy centerfold.. Even for the Jane Seymours and Marisa Tomeis of this world, that is a ship that has long since vanished over the horizon.

    Nevertheless, looks will continue to matter for men until their eyesight fails or they drop into their graves. Even though she may never appear in a centerfold, this woman will have an easier time finding a man than this woman even though the first woman is 70 and the second is 62.

  133. Elspeth says:

    BTW I have another [white] friend in his late 50s who just married a black woman in her late 50s. She looks like Freda Payne.

    Black women who take care of themselves look younger much longer than other ethnicities of women.

  134. Abby says:

    To AsinusSpinasMasticans. It seems that you either skimmed over my post or misconstrued it. I didn’t say anything about 55 year old women BEING Playboy centerfolds. I said that mature men are NOT LOOKIN FOR PLAYBOY CENTERFOLDS. I can also say that just because someone is young doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re good looking. There are plenty of young women who look like something the cat dragged in, and plenty of older women who look fabulous. It’s all relative. But for anyone to say that older women are not desirable because of their ages is absurd. I repeat, I now lots of older women who look great, and are having the times of their lives dating. I am not imagining this or making this up. I am simply trying to look on the positive side of many of the negative comments here. P.S. — Most 50-something men don’t look so hot…

  135. CL says:

    Looks matter less to women than men, so it doesn’t matter if a 50YO man doesn’t “look so hot”. Nevertheless, men generally age better than women.

    I can’t help wondering if these 50-something women having the “time of their lives dating” are getting the old romp and run from frat boys on a coked up night out. What fun! I still got it! They’ll still end up with cats for company.

  136. Abby says:

    Sorry, but looks do matter to women. I also disagree that men age better than women. At least not the women I know. Meanwhile, these are not “frat boys” these women acquaintances and friends of mine are dating. These are guys close to them in age (in some case a few years younger), and these guys are successful, without exception. So they’re not looking for “sugar mamas.” Case in point, my mom has a widowed friend who is 79, is a complete knockout (she goes to a gym six days a week) and is about to marry a doctor. They have known each other since they were teenagers and he always had a crush on her, which did not diminish with her age. It certainly seems to bother you that some women actually have not been put out to pasture, and refuse to see themselves as “washed up” and undesirable. As I said earlier, how you see yourself determines how the world sees you, regardless of your age, looks or gender. So sorry if I don’t buy into your ageist, misogynistic BS. P.S. – There are worse fates than winding up with a cat. It beats winding up with some loser guy.

  137. CL says:

    Case in point, my mom has a widowed friend who is 79, is a complete knockout

    I’m sorry, but it was hard to read the rest due to uncontrollable laughter. Really, though, that’s nice that she has someone, really, it is, but come on… (And I said looks matter less to women, not they don’t matter at all, but this is typical of women – can’t take a simple statement at face value but instead have to resort to hyperbole and absolutes).

  138. TFH says:

    I also disagree that men age better than women.

    That is your hamster-wheel running.

    How many couples have the woman 5+ years older than the man? How many have the man 5+ years older than the woman?

    How many actresses can still command big bucks for films after age 40? How man men can? Why did Harrison Ford and Sean Connery have much longer careers as headliners, than Demi Moore and Julia Roberts and Michelle Pfieffer did?

    Remember that a woman will believe any fiction that makes her feel good (as you just demonstrated). If you stick around, we can help you understand more about how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think. Quite the opposite in fact.

  139. TFH says:

    7man,

    Overactive hamsters eventually up with cats as pets.

    Actually, the cat is necessary to keep the hamster running hard. A cat is a predator of rodents like hamsters, and keeps the hamster too scared to slack off. That is why single women over 35 specifically choose cats, rather than parakeets or goldfish, which are not predators of hamsters.

    A hawk or a snake would also suffice, but since a cat needs neither room to fly, nor eats only once a month, a cat ends up being the best choice. A ferret would also perform the role an old maid needs it to perform.

  140. Abby says:

    Think what you want, little man. I am through feeding the troll…

  141. TFH says:

    I estimate that Abby is about age 35-36, and is presently facing her Wile E. Coyote moment.

  142. TFH says:

    I am through feeding the troll…

    Good that you can at least feed yourself.

    Projection is another trait of women in denial. You have a long way to go before you understand how women think. You can learn more about how women think if you read the articles here, rather than live in denial.

  143. 7man says:

    Abby, CL has no dangly bits between her legs. LOL, But the “79 year old knockout” was a good laugh. Remember to keep your hamster wheel hubs well greased.

    To be fair, a 79 year old women might possibly be a knockout for a 89 year old man, but I’m going to keep my imagination in check.

    Wait… one more laugh, a knockout 79 year old women getting a rise out of a 89 year old man. ROTFLMAO

  144. CL says:

    Well there’s always…

  145. Dalrock says:

    This post has really hit a nerve. All I did was throw out a few charts and it is now the all time most visited page on my blog. It even has bigger traffic than my post on lara logan (I ended up in the top of Google rankings during the run up to the big 60 min episode).

    As I’ve mentioned previously, women don’t care about men after age 55. They passionately don’t care. They don’t care so much they are constantly telling everyone how much they don’t care.

  146. TFH says:

    It is amazing how many safety nets traditional societies put into place just to prevent young women from committing self-sabotage, since the final 40-45 years of a woman’s life are *after* her sexual value has waned. A matronly role with children and grandchildren was a perfect soft-landing for this inevitability, and feminists squandering this is perhaps the worst thing they could do to women.

    No amount of government spending by a massive feminist police state can substitute this. We are currently witnessing exactly this breaking point.

    And *I* am the troll? Heh.

  147. Glenn B. says:

    Speaking of “projection,” I am sure that women were done with the types of “men” posting on here a long, long time ago. Somehow, I suspect that most of these guys are fat losers who live in their mommies basements who haven’t been on a date since Reagan was in office. Time to grow up, fellas, and get a life.

  148. RL says:

    @TFH: I recently saw a copy of EPL in an airport book store. On the back cover, Julia Roberts mentions how she gave this great book to all her friends. From hypergamous whore in ‘pretty woman’ to EPL copy distributor, way to go for her.

  149. Lavazza says:

    “Speaking of “projection,” I am sure that women were done with the types of “men” posting on here a long, long time ago. Somehow, I suspect that most of these guys are fat losers who live in their mommies basements who haven’t been on a date since Reagan was in office. Time to grow up, fellas, and get a life.”

    LOL! At the most popular Swedish MRA site we have a handle (jämställdhetsministern) who will, just as a joke, agree with the feminists commenting and add some inane feminist drivel standard response like this a couple of times in every big thread.

  150. TFH says:

    Glenn B is a woman, probably ‘Abby’ herself.

    These females have no idea how transparent they are to us.

    Oh, and having sex with a lot of women actually decreases respect for women. Men who ‘respect women’ are the ones who cannot get laid. So you have it exactly backwards.

    You have no idea how women think (most women don’t).

  151. TFH says:

    Flabby Abby will have trouble sleeping (alone) tonight….

    Let’s see which sockpuppets she posts as tomorrow.

  152. Elspeth says:

    I wouldn’t say she’s a “knockout”, but at 74, not bad at. all.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/13/ernestine-shepard-74-year_n_644607.html

    And yes, she’s an outlier of the highest order, no doubt.

    I’m just stirring the pot CL, LOL. I realize that the chances of almost any 70-something looking half this good are rarer than rare. Abby is definitely engaging in hyperbole. But Ernestine Shepherd is certainly something to aspire to, yes?

  153. Elspeth says:

    Oh, and this woman got started working out at age 56!

  154. Donald Drew says:

    I do not know exactly how this site found me, but I keep getting post alerts and return from time to time. Seems like the actual subject has lost perspective. A lot of personal assults and bantering. I was out with my girlfriend last night (57) and asked her if she thought in general if the over 55 single women in her circle were done with men, dating, looking hard, or happily alone and
    done with men. So a fresh perspective focused on the subject of this post is: Most of her over 55 single women are working out and keeping in shape, not for themselves but in hopes of finding a man. Of course this question opened a bigger can of worms, but bottom line is that women over 55 are not done with men. Those that claim they are have given up on themselves. Heavy, unkept, lacking a good profession or lack financial security. We both agreed that communication about expectations becomes more difficult with the over 55 group. Men and women over 55 that remain in the game, feel they are younger and have a mind set they are younger. A younger mind set (for some) creates expectations that are not realistic for senior dating / releationships. Our relationship has developed well because of good communication. We want to live alone, but enjoy fine dining, and travel. We do not have to talk every day and we do a lot of spontaneous stuff, which is what I really like about the relationship. Early on, we discussed dating other people and it really never happened, but agreed it was OK. So I asked her last night if she had dated anyone else since we met 3 years ago. She first seemed shocked that I asked the question and immediately asked why and if I was dating other women. I said just curious because we discussed that when we first started dating and no, I wasn’t dating some other ladies. She said she was extremely happy with our relationship and while we discussed it early on, she felt we had moved above that. To that end….looks like some new communication coming my way…we are very happy with our routine. Leaving on a cruise this Saturday and wishing I had not brought this subject up……lol

  155. Anonymous says:

    And I thought women were catty. Some of you guys are downright nasty.

  156. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    Anybody who wants to see nuclear powered rationalization hamsters in full Nuremberg display should drop in on the Over 45 forum on Plentyoffish.com. It is dominated by a many-headed hydra composed of frequent female posters who lay down the party line with total ruthlessness:

    1) Women experience no decrease in sexual market value due to aging – any 50 year old woman will be as attractive to a 50 year old man as her 30 year old self was to his 30 year old self.
    2) Women are all fabulous divas who only get more fabulous with age. Men are constitutionally incapable of recognizing this.
    3) The optimal relationship for the mature goddess is a part-time, completely monogamous relationship with a man who maintains his own residence and only comes over when the diva needs to be squired somewhere where other fabulous divas can envy her. Preferably, he should look like one of the three Sams (Elliot, Shepherd, Neill).
    4) Any man who bails on a mature woman cannot handle her fabulousity.

    The hydra maintains her strength because there are a number of male supplicants who feed it on a regular basis. Nevertheless, it is a joy to watch the hydra hiss and spit venom when the party line is challenged, like the 62 year old guy who lost 30 pounds in the gym and discovered he could date 35 year olds, or the doughy 55 year old guy who took a vacation in Colombia and found himself drowning in the attentions of 25 year old colombianas.

  157. Alphalady says:

    Then maybe you should move to Colombia. I am sure that the many-headed hydras and sundry divas would be completely bereft without you.

  158. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    No tendría ninguna problema si lo hiciera. Tan pronto como salga mi amigo del gimnasio nos vamos.

    Parece que la hidra brotó otra cabecita.

  159. Marilyn says:

    Why are males so angry when females are done with men by a certain age? Doesn’t society and men tell us how older women need to try harder to get a man after age 40 due to how even the most unattractive 40-50/somethinger can still get the younger women that he could not attract in his youth? Wouldn’t it be a blessing to older men to not have to contend with us “old ugly hags” trying to make a relationship with them and then these men having to tell us that we are not good enough?

    I do keep myself up but am no longer the skinny girl of my youth or younger years. Life and tragedy did catch up when it comes to eating issues. Most of us women have ruined our metabolism with fad diets so the chickens have literally come home to roost via body fat in our older years. I wear very nice clothes and use quality cosmetics so I choose to look for myself. I am not foolish enough to try to attract a man, where I could only get criticism for not having a young woman’s body or refusing to BOTOX my face so a man can not feel embarrassed about being seen with me: an older woman.

    It is a relief not to have sexual desire. A man will have sex with anyone even though he will mock a woman for not having a tight body and still want to do reprehensible sexual things in the bedroom. There are too many desperate older women who will do what they think it takes to snag a man. Any man who is upset at a woman of this age being done with men is only upset that we have caught onto the game and have opted out of playing.

  160. Evie says:

    I have been having a good laugh reading through these comments. I am not over 55. I just hit the 50 marker this year. I feel good about myself, have a great job and bring in a great salary. I’m very satisfied and happy where I am. I have no intentions of getting married again. Not because I don’t like men but I have been single so long and I really like my freedom and am unwilling to give that up. I can come and go as I please, do what I please without consideration of anyone. I would have a very difficult time giving that up. I am happier single.

  161. Alphalady says:

    As another poster pointed out, this thread has lost perspective. The original intent was to explore the notion that “women are done with men after age 55.” (I can’t help but disagree, by the way. But I digress…)

    Of course, that became conveniently construed by many of the men who visit this blog (who are obviously painfully bitter and angry) as “the reason why women are done with men after age 55 is because we men don’t want them, due to the ‘fact’ that they are ugly old bitches, and we can easily get young hotties.”

    Furthermore, I am saddened to see that a number of women who visit this site have bought into this horseshit. Like Marilyn, who seems to feel the need to apologize for her very existence. (Sorry, sweetie, but you come across as quite conflicted about your self-worth.)

    Meanwhile, those women who were brave enough to disagree were attacked as being fat, ugly cat lovers (despite the lack of any concrete physical evidence…and how dare you malign cat lovers!) or “manginas” (if they happened to be male, and proclaimed to actually find older women — the nerve!– still sexy and vibrant).

    Funny how certain “men” become so threatened at the very idea that any women no longer want them. I wonder why…

  162. Anon says:

    Alphalady,

    I don’t think you realize how much projection you are immersed in. Everything you said has been refuted in this thread, and in Dalrock’a article.

    Plus, the term ‘alpha’ only applies to men. That you would choose this as your handle itself reveals that you have…….issues (to put it mildly).

  163. YBM says:

    Go back to your cat ugly fatty.

  164. AsinusSpinasMasticans says:

    That’s OK.
    If my brother’s experience is at all representative of the experience of older men dating, things aren’t that rough for men. It took him a while to find a keeper, but he never lacked for sexual partners.

  165. anon says:

    Dear Gurus,

    I am 41 and I am trying to date a 60 year old lady. She has gone to dates with me 4 times. We never held hands or do anything. How do I approach her about getting intimate with her? She knows that I think she’s very attractive and has agreed to go on a short trip with me in the future. Do women over 60 consciously feel she’s “old”? I get that feeling from her communications that she feels she’s too old for more. But I would definitely ML with her in a heart beat. I am a very physically fit guy and so is she.

  166. CL says:

    I am a very physically fit guy and so is she.

    LOL

  167. deti says:

    anon Dec 14, 2011 at 5:50 pm:

    I’m a 43 year old guy, married. I can tell you that if I were single, the only reason I would pursue a 60 year old woman is if she were very physically fit, very attractive, and to escalate to “intimacy” as rapidly as possible.

    I’d suggest the following:

    1. Escalate physically, Hold her hand and assess her comfort level. Move to kissing and do the same. Tell her you want to be intimate with her. She has to know that you find her attractive after 4 dates. You’d better escalate soon.
    2. No trips together unless you pay your own way and she pays hers.

  168. 7man says:

    anon Dec 14, 2011 at 5:50 pm:
    If you are very physically fit and become a confident man, you could pursue a woman half the age of the 60 year old you are trying to date.

    41-19=22 Wow, the age range of women you can pursue is almost the equivilant of your age.

  169. Ecclesiastes says:

    Alphalady,

    What bothers me about women being done with men when they get old is that is seems like they’re getting away with a crime. They spent their entire lives making the world worse and now they’re going to withdraw and be hermit? I want them out here so I can return some of the compassion they gave.

    It’s a character flaw. As a Christian, I should have mercy, forgiveness. Jesus knew heartbreak and forgave.

    I’ll work on it, but in the meantime I’ll continue to chuckle at women’s stories of boyfriends who wrecked their cars after nailing hotter babes in them ( *heheheheh* ).

  170. KM says:

    Hmmm….well I know this is just an anecdote, but I’m a 50 year old woman. In the 5 years since I’ve been divorced, almost all of the time I’ve dated actively or been in an exclusive relationship. 4 of my relationships were longer-term (1-2 years), and all of those men really wanted to marry me but I didn’t want to marry them. Why not? Basically, because I can afford to be choosy.
    I already have a family (kids) and there’s no “ticking clock” at my age. I’m a career professional, and financially secure–I don’t need a “meal ticket”. Having gone thru a difficult marriage & divorce (ex with alcohol and fidelity issues), I’m not eager to repeat that. So if I ever get married again the guy’s got to be a keeper. Why I didn’t marry my recent long-term suitors:
    1) He was 13 yrs older than me—not a great thing when your already middle aged & looking into the future. He might be dead by the time I retire from my job, for example. Also physically, well, he was and old guy. Plus he suffered from debilitating anxiety—wasn’t sure I wanted to deal with that long-term. Wonderful guy & we’re still friends, and I still sometimes wonder if we should have tried it anyway….
    2) He was only 5 years older than me but spent half his time working in another city a plane ride away. Fascinating to talk to–he’s actually a well known person–but a workaholic Plus he was an old-school male centered on himself–it hardly seemed to occur to him that I might have a life too. For example, he refused to spend the time to even meet my parents even after we’d dated for a year and he was pressuring me to marry him, even though we spent lots of time with his family & I traveled with him frequently for work. Also, he had health issues & was overweight and doing nothing about it—that made me wonder what I’d be signing up for. We still email back and forth and he’d like to get back together, but the issues that I worried about when we were dating are still there…..
    3) He was 5 years older than me, healthy, a rock muscian & tech guy, and super fun to hang out with. But he was underneath bitter and insecure bout being an underachiever his whole life. He lied about his accomplishments, was proud of being a troll online, and complained about other people all the time. After a while he started treating me snarky and mean too, putting me down, etc. I dumped him and then he stalked me for a year–what a loser! Now I’m wiser about “red flags”.
    4) He was 7 years older than me, in my profession so we had a lot in common, VERY handsome, treated me like a princess, we really clicked. I did worry at bit because he was more intensely Christian religious than I am, he was a leader in his church, taught the lessons, preached, talked about his faith all the time, and criticized me a bit because I was less active in my faith. Eventually he admitted to cheating on me for much of the time we were together including while we were talking marriage, and it also came out that he’d cheated constantly during his 32 year previous marriage. He begged and promised to change…! Said he cheated during his marriage because it was all his wife’s fault. He urged us to attend couples counseling, and said that he knew a great counselor because he and his wife had gone to him for decades! Of course I dumped him. He still sends me goopy emails every few months declaring his undying love and how he “shouldn’t be judged for one small mistake”. He also said he “believes in redemption” so I should give him a chance to redeem himself (!). OMG I thought that was actually pretty funny — him using religious language to sweep his life long history of indiscretions, including all during the time we were together, under the rug. I still see him occasionally at work when we have to interact professionally so that’s a bit awkward. I don’t feel sorry for him–geez, man, what did you expect?!?

  171. Bob says:

    I’m 69, but it’s just a number now. I’m twice married, and now single with 2 dogs and 3 cats. I’m a good friend to them (the dogs and cats that is). It’s pretty apparent to me that I am probably not a good candidate for marriage and have accepted that reality. I work at being a good friend to my neighbors and try to be civil with my relatives, and loving to some .

    I don’t waste much time worrying about the past and try to deal with the future in whatever form it takes on. I am trying to be a better man and once in a while I am.

  172. so very much true says:

    to abby, i do seem to meet all the nasty women with their no good attitude. tell me something, if you are so smart , why are they like this? i did nothing wrong on my part, as far as i know. women are definitely much more different than they were years ago. women today, cannot stay with one man like they did years ago. women were raised very well by their parents, unlike now. once women’s lib took over, it messed up their brain. most of them think that they are all that, but they are not. and since there are many women today that are lesbians, it will be harder for me to meet a good one today, like i have said before, i cannot blame myself for what they have become now. years ago, that is why our grandparents and parents were very lucky to have met one another, and stayed married for as long as they did. think about that one.

  173. Marilyn says:

    A lot of women are in denial. We have shows like “Cougar Town” and the soap operas which keep women rowing down that River of Denial.

    The options for older women are very low regardless of how a woman tries to convince herself she is an older “goddess.” Even Demi Moore with her millions and fame could not keep her younger husband. He started straying for young women even though Demi controlled most of the purse strings and made her regular visits for cosmetic surgery.

    Many divorced men and widowers over the age of 50 do remarry but they tend to marry women much younger than their former wives or late-wives. A 79/year-old woman being a knockout? That is another feminist delusion. If that was the case, there would not be so many elderly women alone.

    The man stating that a woman got away with a crime by no longer dating and he wants to extend the same mercy of Jesus? We do not need that “mercy”. As I stated in my first post, it seems some fellows like this Ecclesiastes man may only be angry at a woman retreating because he knows she is over the game due to knowing how it is played. There are plenty of fresh young women wanting a man. No need to try to dip one’s hand into an older woman’s candy dish and possibly embarrass her.

  174. Donald Drew says:

    @ Marilyn. Very well put. It is what it is. If you are over 55, you really have to be the cream of the crop to be seriously courted by a good man that has his ducks in a row. I am in my early sixties and date a 57 year old lady that is very nice looking, a workout fanatic, retired and secure. We have been together for 3 years and do not live together by choice. She has recently been talking about a face lift and showing signs of insecurity. While I tell her she is a very pretty lady, her mind set seems to be as she ages, she is becoming less desirable…..On the other hand, I never really am concerned about her aging and certainly not mine…Men that chose women 10-20 years younger, that to is a tough road to and seldom leads to anything more than what it appears on the surface. Money for youth is simply the beginning of a death spiral. Men are living considerably longer than past generations, we and women really do not know what to do with us :)

  175. Marilyn says:

    @Donald Drew…thank-you for your post. Most people (women) are very angry when the issue of aging is pointed out. If women did not know that they had to be the cream of the crop after their 40’s (or even 30’s in a lot of social circles), the finer cosmetic counters would not have so many female customers buying the skin firming and anti-aging creams.

    I am glad you found a lady whom is good for you re: relationship. Many seniors do not live together because they have their own homes. Marriage would cut the Social Security benefits in half for many people so it is cost prohibitive to marry at a later age. It is a rough road when an aging man chooses a much younger woman but many still do it. That desire is very strong.

  176. david says:

    woman who want sexlife into elderly life are ok by me age is only a number not a state of mind im 53yo man who would gladly take them into my bed if born in 1930 lady i am yours.

  177. anon says:

    @Donald Drew,

    Can women over 55 still achieve climax? I wonder whether they require external lubrication and other special care? Do you have some information you could share with us on how to make them happy?

  178. Alphalady says:

    Wow! Now here’s a so-called “ugly old hag” who obviously “roped a man.” A man who loved her since grade school. LOL! So long, suckers! http://www.philly.com/philly/living/celebrations/weddings/135973748.html

  179. Alphalady says:

    P.S. – Yes, Donald, we “old broads” can still achieve “climax.” Tough shit if that makes you feel threatened.

    Marilyn, thanks for hating yourself. You give the MRAs a good reason to exist.

  180. Donald Drew says:

    @ AlphaBitch…not sure why you made a statement pointed at me. I never questioned if women can have a climax (“old broads your words”) Personally I do not care, but in your case, I assume as long as they make batteries, you can climax anytime you desire…..You know there is an old saying, “Those that talk about having money, have none” and in your case I assume, “Those that have to talk about a climax must not be able to have one”….keep me off your hate list you old dried up prune…you would expect someone claiming to be the “Alphalady” would have a lot more class than you exhibit….close the trailer door and take your trash talk to Jerry Springer…….

  181. Marilyn says:

    AlphaLady, you live in a delusional world. If this was not an issue for aging women, there would not be so many older females talking about this issue. As for the article, these situations are few and far between. It seems as if you have a self-hatred issue. “Old broads”…well, you got something right. Don’t disgrace yourself trying to be 22 again.

  182. Ecclesiastes says:

    @Marilyn

    Thank you for taking note of me, but I wish you had read my comment closer.

    I said it *seems* like they’re getting away with a crime. That’s the feel of it to me.

    I don’t want to extend the “same mercy of Jesus”. I said I wanted to extend the same compassion to those women that they showed to others: damn little. I don’t want to hurt them myself, just to watch the world work its justice upon them.

    I noted that wanting that justice, the return to them of what they gave, was a CHARACTER FLAW OF MINE. Further, I noted that Jesus forgave and that’s a standard I FAIL to meet. Mercy like his is exactly what you are hoping for. I am shocked at your interpretation. That’s nasty even for a militant atheist.

    Wow. All this typing and I haven’t said a single new thing.

    Alphalady, proud guiltless and unable to remember doing anything she should be ashamed of, asked why men are threatened by the idea that women don’t want them after age 55. I have answered without evasion.

    I don’t expect that kind of integrity from her. She is incapable of it. I expect no gratitude for my addressing her question directly. She is incapable of grace as well. She did not notice that I didn’t twist her words to my advantage. In her world that is only an oversight, a mistake I made that she needn’t prosecute. When she says ‘love’ or ‘relationship’, those words are Alphalady-speak for ‘manipulative favor’ and ‘struggle for power’. This world was made by and for her kind.

    I sincerely hope she finds ‘love’ in a long term ‘relationship’. It’s a sin, but I do.

  183. wonderingwhereallthegoodmenage says:

    Divorced 54 year old female here. I’ve been divorced for over 10 years. I probably could have remarried about 3-4 times during that time but I wasn’t willing to settle. I did that the first time and I learned my lesson.
    Most of the guys I’ve met are either financially insecure (too much alimony debt or too little professional motivation), dealing with kids who have issues (drugs, eating disorders, financial irresponsibility), or are just not attractive to me. I don’t think I’m overly selective – but geez, are there no good men out there?
    After reading the other posts, I guess I sound like a b**** but honestly, why would I want to get involved with a man who I have to support after working my butt off my entire life to ensure that I could be financially secure? And why would I want to be with a man who has dysfunctional kids when I worked so hard to make sure that my kids were prepared to be responsible adults? And lastly, why would I want to be with a man who is overweight, has an alcohol or drug problem, or is not trustworthy?
    There is a serious shortage of decent men – unfortunately I sometimes think that all the good ones are stuck with the creeps they married years ago!
    Sometimes I think that the problem is that the men of my generation were never part of the draft. The military seems to impart a sense of responsibility and maturity that stays with a man…something I don’t see in the men my age.

  184. YBM says:

    hahahah “not enough men were forced to die for consumer capitalism and my diamond rings”.

    Thanks for stopping by old hag! Merry Christmas to you and your……

    well merry christmas to you anyway.

  185. Just1X says:

    to you and your cats…

    FIFY YBM

  186. Amy says:

    these posts are the stupidest stuff I have ever read!! Men age worse than we do a lot of the time LOL! Boy are you all way off. My mother divorced my father in her forties. Had men younger than her chasing her until her recent death in her 70’s. Her last serious bf who she broke up with was 5 years younger than her! And same in her 50’s! My next door neighbor just got remarried for the 4th time and she is ninety and none of the guys have been older than her, some younger! Get a clue you stupid ass men. We women don’t want older men at any age for the most part nor need to settle for them.

    I am in my forties/ divorced female and everyone thinks I am 30. I date guys much younger than me and never more than a few years older as I like nice bodies not the fat flabby ones most men have at any age. The younger guys I date many times have worse bodies than I do.

    So shut the heck up.and find some happiness you miserable bitter people. Oh and work out men. Us females don’t want you fat ugly asses.

  187. Amy says:

    oh have heard the term panther…that is the name used for old ugly men looking for young women who don’t want them! or need them we have our own money and are more educate then men. Why don’t you post a survey re: women and jobs vs men and Women and college vs men.
    More women now go to college than men by a huge percentage and more women are in the word force than men, many more. More women have professional jobs than men. Who do you think lost out most in this recession re: jobs and money. MEN who can’t find another job b/c in their fifties they are no longer wanted in the work force…yes ageism. It is their for men and women..but seems these days men feeling it more…

  188. Amy says:

    and it is late…so yes there are typos etc. but you get the point losers

  189. ron says:

    Many of the comments are based on statistics that can be used to justify several hypotheses. Eric has some of it right when he observes that many (but hopefully not all) females seek males beneath them because then the female can dominate and feel superior in a society that tries to teach females to be less than men and to need makeup to look good. Also this type of guy gets a pseudo-mama to change his nappies and protect him from responsibility despite his tough guy exterior. “Thugs” and “alphas” tend to get the shorts and tank top cuties because of ignorance and conditioning by the media. Smart men are rarely praised or glorified. At least one woman here has mentioned that older men tend to “let themselves go” and aren’t attractive enough for her. That sounds like a teenager. By the time you are over 50 you should have learned that having sex with an attractive body or pretty face does not last as long as sex and true friendship regardless of size or shape. As long as you don’t weigh in at over 100 kilos for men or 80 kilos for women and as long as your face isn’t out of a horror show, anyone can look good enough in jeans and a nice fitting tank top to interest the opposite sex. I think humans make it too “complicado” as Brasilians say. Everyone needs love and affection and at least occasional sexual contact to stay mentally healthy. If women prefer chitchats with girlfriends over friendship and romance with a man, maybe that’s because (a) there aren’t many men out there with intelligence and sensitivity to what a woman likes and needs, and (b) there aren’t many women out there who know what a mature man likes and needs (and it’s not just The Thing ladies!). We are not taught the basics of how to get along well with the opposite sex, In gym class we are separated by a sliding wall just when we should be learning more about each other! Movie stars certainly don’t show us how to properly behave with each other or how to feel confident and good about ourselves and our appearance. Yet so many humans accept soapies and movies as reality, when in fact that world is false. Take some time out to learn about yourself and how to enjoy your own company. Then maybe someone else will be able to enjoy intimacy with you.

  190. deti says:

    women are really done with men. Oh yes they are. Women are so done with men over 50 that women feel compelled to come here and tell everyone who will listen how done they are with men. They are done. And they need to tell everyone that they’re done. Amy is so done that she feels she absolutely HAS to come here and tell all men how fat, ugly and worthless they are.

  191. Amy, you sound like a real prize.

  192. Chris says:

    David… she may be cute, but that attitude will go to the bone.

    Amy… We get enough of your shite at work. If you don’t like the way Dalrock analyses current relationships… go elsewhere.

  193. Chris, I was being sarcastic. Amy is the sort of woman that gives American women a bad international reputation.

  194. Rmaxd says:

    “Her last serious bf who she broke up with was 5 years younger than her! And same in her 50′s! My next door neighbor just got remarried for the 4th time and she is ninety and none of the guys have been older than her, some younger!”

    Hilarious post … amy these are pensioners … they CANT date older men, as the older men are all around the about to kick the bucket age …

    Amy proves yet again most of theEPL women like her are batshit loonytunes

    “My next door neighbor just got remarried for the 4th time and she is ninety and none of the guys have been older than her, some younger”

    Seriously do you women really see this as proof of women dating younger men? These women are ancient, even their vaginas are probably incontinent …

  195. EJW says:

    I am a 61 year old female. I am not “over men” but the only men I find attractive are usually 15 years or so younger than I am–I have loads of male friends who are younger than I am. However, having said that, I am absolutely NOT interested in marriage or even dating. And, guess what? I am not alone. I know quite a few woman who have no interest in going down that road again. Why? Hormones? Who knows? Maybe it is because I don’t want the hassle in my life. Besides, having a man hanging around is limiting. I don’t have to explain myself. I don’t have to pick up his dirty underwear. I can spend my money as I want without having to hear someone bitching about it. I can do exactly as I please and that is precious. Some of the comments on this site would turn any 50+ woman off men for good.

  196. ybm says:

    Good, go back to your cats spinster. Make sure to die in the hospital so they can still give you an open casket funeral for your fa….

    oh

  197. Capt. Billy says:

    look at this from an evolutionary/natural selection perspective and some possible answers emerge. What happens to post menopausal women simply does not matter, since they no longer pass on their genetic code. So sexual behavior, or attraction to/by men, simply doesn’t matter for post menopausal women. As a 50 year old man or woman we are disturbed or confused by changes in sexual appetite, but the evolution of humans is simply unaffected by women past reproductive age. In pre-industrial earth men and women were generally dead by their late 30s to early 40s, so even if women or men had been capable or reproduction past this age it would have been incidental.

    I suppose that one could argue that it made some sense that men could reproduce to the end of life while women could not. Men were only needed for their genetic code while women were often left to do the vast majority of the raising of the children. So even if women were able to reproduce after age 50, the odds of their children surviving after the death of their mother (which was very very likely) was very low.

    Now that we are no longer governed by natural selection evolution (since even the least capable among us can have and raise children), and since we tend to live much longer than the ancestors we evolved from, we have to face problems that we never evolved to have to face. It can be heartbreaking for men to deal with a wife who suddenly seems to have lost all desire for intimacy, just as it can be frustrating for a wife to have to deal with a man who cannot physically perform any longer. In the first case the man is left wondering, “why does my wife no longer love me” while in the second the woman is simply left wondering if her husband is not longer excited by her.

  198. Monique says:

    I’m 55. Holy crap. After reading the lion’s share of comments on this post, I’m also unbelievably depressed.

  199. Terry says:

    @ Monique. Your comment made me laugh. I’m also 55 and it seems that I fit into the “woman over 50 not looking for a mate” category. But I think I’ll get my teeth whitened anyway because it will make me happy when I look in the mirror. BTW, it’s amazing how many grouchy comments the original post elicited… Holy CRAP! :-)

  200. Susan says:

    Hi, I turned 60 Christmas Day and I still love men. There is beauty in every person I see or meet. I am more sexually active now than when I was 21 and would be more if I could find a man who would commit with me and enjoy our time together. The study is really not a large study of females which is a sampling that does not prove anything. I am a consultant for schools and have a testing and measurements degree. Now for some of the questions I have seen on this free for all: The old saying if you don’t use it, you lose it , IS TRUE.. I climax several times with a man and do not need lubrication. I climax myself when I am not in a relationship. I have gone through the change and I am the same as when I was 21, maybe stiff in the joints due to the climate/or age, but that passes with a shower. (together would be nice) LOL

    The answers to the whole thing is as plain as the notes on this site…. Anger, Hurt, Resentment, and Giving up. I met a woman who married at 86 and had a wonderful sex life and love life till she died at 90. The mind is a wonderful thing we should not waste… heard that ??? Your mind set, male or female is the HUGE icebreaker… not the men or women… so heal and stop carrying around that ton of bricks of bad karma. To see the good in someone, love, and cherish what that person has to offer is a wonderful thing. And I promise you, that the way men as well as women treat each other is the problem.

    I am not married..but I have been asked and knew that it was not right, either it was to settle or just be with one another and I wanted the whole thing… Love, Nurturing, feeling safe, and intimacy. So as I put this in stone for all to read…. LOL… You can’t make someone love you, but you can forgive and move on and enjoy time with a man even at 60 or 86 or older. And there is a lot of hurt out there that needs to have their love tanks filled with good things from both sides…. nurturing, positive statements, kindness, intimacy, giving of one’s self , and more. When we can learn to change our minds our hearts will follow. Not simple, you have to work on it and believe. I still believe that after going thru some really hard situations and I know that there is nothing more wonderful than feeling safe in the arms of a man who makes me feel loved and stops time so that we can nurture each other and fill our love tanks. This nurturing makes us both strong for the things life throws at us. I may never marry, but I wont let hurt, anger, or a person’s poor behavior change my mindset and just give up. I plan on living till I am 90 and that my friend is 30 years of the most I can get out of life or sitting around being bitter. I choose happiness in accepting the good things in people and making great memories no matter what another person may choose. So there you have my opinion and as it is , the main point – we are all individuals and we all need to feel a sense of belonging. To belong you must get out there and belong.. simple.. with or with a relationship and hopefully with an open heart… Our hearts always mends if we as people forgive.
    May Heavenly Father Bless each and everyone who reads this…. Susan

  201. Susan says:

    I am proud of you Monique… and all of you who are positive… take care

  202. alpinerainn says:

    Thank you, Susan. That was a much needed breath of fresh air and inspiration! I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. If we can all treat each other with respect and kindness, much healing and love are sure to follow. Blessings! :-)

  203. lauravdm2011 says:

    Happy Belated Birthday to you, Susan! Thank you for your very interesting post on January 12. My husband of 25 years left me and our kids. It didn’t ‘just’ happen over night but he never complained about anything – kept it all inside.

    Anyway, I’m going to “study” what you wrote because the word ‘bitter’ is an understatement. He has moved on as if we never existed – and I see the pain in my children’s eyes – not to mention the confusion. ‘Forgiveness’ is a funny word for me too. At 52, I don’t want another man – I took care of him (I was his “mother with benefits”), I am still raising my children and would like to know when it’s going to be my turn?! I gave up my life, my career, my ‘me’ to help my husband with his career (never got paid or thanked), I took care of the house inside and out and raised our 6 children – not to mention home schooling them too, and then POOF – one day he leaves and doesn’t even know who we are anymore.

    So, Susan, let me read what you wrote – and for the rest of you out there – I’m a wounded bird – don’t give me any crap – you didn’t walk in my shoes and I didn’t walk in yours. Keep your judgin’ to yourself, please. Thanks…

  204. ybm says:

    ” I am still raising my children and would like to know when it’s going to be my turn?! I gave up my life, my career, my ‘me’ to help my husband with his career (never got paid or thanked),”

    Meaning no harm to you ma’am, but it sounds like he got out just in time before Eat, Pray, Love kicked in.

  205. alpinerainn says:

    Laura…I had to laugh at your comment, “Mother with benefits”! That’s exactly what I felt like in my marriage. I am sorry for your loss and your pain, and that of your children. I started over at 50 and went back to college while raising my two. It was the best thing I ever did. You will find your strength and momentum to carry on and move forward. (Just ignore these petty little rude comments…they show up every once in awhile like the pesky little bloodsucking mosquitoes that they are!) I will look for your email, because I would like to send you something. Keep your head up! :-)

  206. deti says:

    Lauravdm:

    “My husband of 25 years left me and our kids.”

    “I took care of him (I was his “mother with benefits”)”

    “when it’s going to be my turn?!”

    Q. E. D.

    All due respect, ma’am, perhaps your ex husband wanted a wife, not a mother.

  207. Joshua says:

    @ lauravdm2011

    “Anyway, I’m going to “study” what you wrote because the word ‘bitter’ is an understatement. He has moved on as if we never existed – and I see the pain in my children’s eyes – not to mention the confusion. ‘Forgiveness’ is a funny word for me too. At 52, I don’t want another man – I took care of him (I was his “mother with benefits”), I am still raising my children and would like to know when it’s going to be my turn?! I gave up my life, my career, my ‘me’ to help my husband with his career (never got paid or thanked), I took care of the house inside and out and raised our 6 children – not to mention home schooling them too, and then POOF – one day he leaves and doesn’t even know who we are anymore.”

    This makes me sad. Certainly not in the way you think.

  208. lauravdm2011 says:

    Are women done with men after age 55? It depends what you mean by the word ‘done’. What role does a woman play through a man’s eyes? If we are going to be completely honest here, I would say, “maid”. We are (through a man’s eyes) here to please men. Be it through sex, housekeeping, or ‘keeping the man’s name alive by producing a child, our role in life is to keep a man happy. Women, by nature, are nurturers and therefore we feel we have to ‘take care of everyone’. It doesn’t matter that our husband ignores us or our kids don’t appreciate all we do for them; we continue to nurture our family. Women also tend to ‘make excuses’ for our husbands’ lack of sensitivity. “Bad day at the office”, “not enough sleep”, “money worries” – you fill in the blank for the excuses.

    Women want to be appreciated and treated with dignity and respect – just like any man out there. We also want to feel worthwhile and loved – just like any man out there.

    If we’re going to be honest, how many men whose spouses also work have taken their kids to the doctor’s office when they were sick? How many of you said, “I can’t take off from work – you do it”. How many of you share in the cooking department? How many change the bed sheets on a weekly basis? Wash the towels? Do the laundry? Wash the dinner dishes? Unload the dishwasher? How many say, “that’s not my job. I cut the grass or fix the leaky faucet.”?

    How often do you do these jobs vs. the chores that happen on a daily basis? Where is the equity in the workload?

    As the days, weeks, months and years go by, women are constantly reminded that their place is in the home doing the crap jobs – the jobs that never seem to get done and we just do them over and over again. And meanwhile, we are not allowed to complain about our mundane lives because that would make us witches with a “b”.

    As long as this country is run by men who feel women are only worth 70 cents to the dollar vs. men, feel women have it easier than men, things will never change for MEN.

    Women, on the other hand, are finally starting to figure it out. We are seeing what it really is like to live with a man and yes, be his mother – because that is what the man chooses – he chooses not to “be a man” and grow up and share the responsibilties of playing house. He chooses to remain a boy and complain about how women don’t treat them well. He thinks going to work all day to ‘make the money’ somehow absolves him of having to do anything else.

    So, to answer your question…I’m not 55 yet, but I will be in a couple of years – Yes, unfortunately I gave it my all and got nothing in return so I am done with men – I mean the boys who never grew up to be men!

  209. ybm says:

    “How often do you do these jobs vs. the chores that happen on a daily basis? Where is the equity in the workload?”
    Strawman and demonstrably false.

    “As the days, weeks, months and years go by, women are constantly reminded that their place is in the home doing the crap jobs – the jobs that never seem to get done and we just do them over and over again.”
    Strawman and again, false.

    “As long as this country is run by men who feel women are only worth 70 cents to the dollar vs. men, feel women have it easier than men, things will never change for MEN.”
    Control for equal work, and again, false.

    “He thinks going to work all day to ‘make the money’ somehow absolves him of having to do anything else.”
    Strawman, and fried-ice arrogance.

    The rest is typical ‘Man-up” femtard claptrap.

  210. Dalrock says:

    then POOF – one day he leaves and doesn’t even know who we are anymore.

    Reminds me of a recent post.

    Also note, since I haven’t done a post in a few days this post is the most viewed on the site. Older women are done with men (unless they are married to one). They are so done with men that they seek out posts like this one and drive massive traffic to it, earnestly commenting about how done with men they are.

  211. Pingback: Why have misandry delivered when you can bake it at home? | Dalrock

  212. Ginger says:

    Over 55 Divorcee says:
    March 21, 2011 at 2:06 am
    I have been divorced for over 15 years and only recently have decided to get back into the dating scene. Why did it take me this long? For me, my children came first. Now that they are out of the house or in college, it is my turn. The problem is that I have found very few men around my age who 1) have taken care of themselves physicially and therefore are not pleasing to the eye, 2) know how to communicate intelligently even after all this time and 3) aren’t full of themselves even at their age. Would I want to spend my time with someone like this, not really. While I would love to be in a healthy, caring and fun relationship with a man and even remarry, I have found the companionship of my women friends to be much more fun and intellectually satisfying. According to the data, it sounds like I am pretty normal.

    This perfectly describes my feelings. I am a 60 year old woman, working full time, own my own home, have funded my own investments to secure a decent retirement, and I work out almost daily. I’ll run a half marathon for my 61st birthday and did a 10K, half marathon, and 10 miler last year. What use might I have for an out of shape guy with issues??? Sure, I’d be open to a relationship if I met an age appropriate man who was healthy and otherwise attractive to me, but men fitting that description almost always date much younger women. Their loss:)

  213. Barbarella says:

    I am 58, still married with children who are currently leaving home to get on and create their own lives. I am going through the menopause. I haven’t really read much of what is written here. However, my experience of the menopause biologically is hot flashes and insomnia with very low libido. Emotionally I am freer and mentally, my time is now as I am not so bound to nurture and make sure people around me are happy and thriving.
    I now have time to make love with my heightened curiosity and many ‘sexy’ issues that really turn me on: the brain; consciousness; astronomy; what is happening with the daily solar winds (do they directly impact our biology?); what can quantum theory really tell us about what we are and where we are headed? Why isn’t there more information on ‘junk’ DNA? And so much more.
    Whether we are male or female, straight or gay, married, divorced or single, indulging in or avoiding sex, 20 or 80, who cares!!!!
    There is so much more to life than wondering whether we appeal to the opposite sex or we are living alone or apart. Perhaps my husband will get bored with me as younger women move out of his peripheral vision to centre stage, perhaps I may find someone else more stimulating – who knows – c’est la vie! Life thankfully goes on for us all with all sorts of surprises and evolving questions.
    Perhaps a lot of things will happen that are socially ‘scary’. One day I will have finished my time on this planet. I just hope that the years left to me allow me to retain my mental faculties and to indulge my sexy curiosity as there is still so much more to explore and discover.
    Happy days to everyone wherever and whatever. Life is absolutely brilliant. Enjoy it while you can, however you choose.
    Have fun!

    Old, happy gal.

  214. slwerner says:

    Lauravdm2011 – ”If we’re going to be honest, how many men whose spouses also work have taken their kids to the doctor’s office when they were sick?”

    I am certainly one. And most of the men I know who are fathers have also done this. In fact, given that my wife cannot simply take off at a monuments notice, I was the primary parent to do so whenever needed. That you even ask this question clearly demonstrates just how clueless you are about the real world. The actual answer is the exact opposite of what you assume it to be.

    And, as she works full time, I gladly do my share of house work (even “house work” as narrowly defined by women to include only those things that they are willing to do). It’s no big deal. Not to me, not to most married men I know. In fact, I do not know any man who would send his wife out on a late-night errand; yet most will do just that at their wives request.

    Woman like you play on media-presented pop-culture myths of lazy, go-for-nuthin’ bums-as-husbands to try to create this false imagine of the “typical” husband. However, it turns out that more and more, it’s women who have neither domestic skills (no good little daughters of feminists are going to be subjected to that, don’t you know) nor the inclination to keep up a household.

    I’ve known quite a few couples in which the wife didn’t work – either outside the home, nor at home. The best of them were much more inclined to do some sort of “volunteer work” (code for doing busy work that could benefit others, but is mostly just and excuse to hang-out with other bored housewives), while the worst were more inclined to just hanging out (coffee, shopping, and not a few who it turned out had other men on the side). Some stay-at-homes even have a maid service – WTF!?!?

    This false image of the modern women slaving away to treat her husband is the same sort of fiction as that of the self-absorbed beer-swilling couch potato husband.

    Even those surveys intend to show how men aren’t “holding up their end of the housework” routinely demonstrate that men do, in fact, already do a significant portion of all “housework”, even without adjusting for those who have stay-at-home wives, nor including “men’s work” (mowing, snow-shovelling, car maintenance, home repair/remodeling, and many more “household duties” that conveniently gets left off of the “housework” list.

    Nice try, but your alternate reality just doesn’t jibe with the reality that most of us know.

  215. Elspeth says:

    ”If we’re going to be honest, how many men whose spouses also work have taken their kids to the doctor’s office when they were sick?”

    We have 5 children and when they were all quite young, my husband would rearrange his work schedule to help me by accompanying us to the doctor’s office because it was too much for either one of us to deal with the child-patient, talk to the doctor, and keep an eye on the other children present. I have always appreciated his hands on approach to parenting despite the fact that he is the sole breadwinner if our household.

    The meme that women do all the heavy lifting when it comes to parenting ti waaaay overblown from what I have witnessed; not just from my own husband, but with the husbands of my friends and relatives as well.

  216. Joshua says:

    Why is it only inside daily housework count as chores but nothing else?

    /rhetorical question.

  217. deti says:

    Ginger:

    All due respect, your post described nothing attractive or desirable to a man except perhaps that you might be in decent physical shape.

    Your post also shows your hatred, contempt and disdain for men. That is why you don’t have one.

  218. deti says:

    Barbarella: Rock on.

  219. Bob says:

    @Laura – Men aren’t looking for someone to share the house work with. If all marriage was was splitting chores with a woman and taking each other’s career equally seriously, then the vast majority of men would want nothing to do with it. Additionally, I would say taking the kids to the doctor and having the rest of the day off, or even just spending a little time with the kids, is better than most men’s jobs.

    Usually the man’s career is more important, most men I know have full time jobs and make a good deal more than their wives. Personally, I would be fine if my wife didn’t work, and I don’t mind doing the laundry or making dinner once in awhile, but I would never split chores or split mothering the children. That sucks. If you think it sucks too, then maybe men and marriage aren’t for you. Of course, there are men out there who are willing to do what you mention, but, they present no sexual polarity and therefore do not cause much if any attraction towards them, so women ignore them.

    A woman’s role is that of support, not of equality. She is equal for the law and before God, but she is supposed to be subservient to the man (I am no old fashioned curmudgeon, there are genuine hypereligious jerks out there who mistreat and practically enslave women, I know, but I’m endorsing that, I am endorsing plain Biblical teaching and what nature tells us). She is supposed to support and push the man in his career, and in return the man is supposed to provide for her and take care of her. Think the Cleaver family from Leave it to Beaver. The majority of men and women are most happy in that kind of arrangement. I will admit that when a woman has to go to work full time or near full time, PLUS take care of the kids, it can be too much, but that is why a man should not go into marriage unless he can provide 100%. I also think that sometimes for a woman a fulltime career, even while young and married, is in order, such as if her and/or her husband cannot have children and are not ready to adopt.

  220. Bob says:

    *meant to say I’m *not* endorsing that.

  221. Elspeth says:

    I agree with your comment Bob, as would my husband. He has never minced words on the fact that he has no intention of doing what I am here to do. He is not going to split the housework or cooking with me. And I really don’t mind at all frankly.

    The whole “taking-the-kids-to-the doctor” example was just a distraction I think from the larger issue; that being a woman’s tendency to assert that a father’s role is less important than a mother’s role. This is patently false.

    Of course, at age 55 there are usually no children around to raise anymore so why would a woman in her 50’s still be complaining about that?

  222. slwerner says:

    Elspeth – “The whole “taking-the-kids-to-the doctor” example was just a distraction I think from the larger issue”

    Good point.

    But, just one more note about her “taking the kids to the doctor” question. I had failed to notice that this women had posted earlier, and seems to indicate that she was a Stay-at-home mother:

    “I gave up my life, my career, my ‘me’ to help my husband with his career (never got paid or thanked), I took care of the house inside and out and raised our 6 children – not to mention home schooling them too”

    She seems to have had a gripe that her husband didn’t take the kids to the doctor, and didn’t do “HIS SHARE” of the housework.

    But, isn’t the point of a man providing for his wife to be at home that she be available (not stuck at a job) to take care of the children, including taking them to the doctor for no-emergency treatment during normal Dr Office hours? And, if he’s out spending the better part of his waking hours working to provide financially, just how much of the “housework” would it even be reasonable to expect him to do?

    She posed a rather lengthy and detailed list, which, I assume she actually expected of him. I have to wonder, given that he seems not to have spent his few hours at home doing “His part”, just how much she must have nagged him?

    So, “poof”, one day he gone… I wonder why?[/snark]

    Okay, I feel that I need to follow up that snarky comment with this disclaimer:

    I am in no way condoning a man deserting his wife and children.

    An ex-friend of mine did just that to his wife and four kids (hence, the reason he is no longer my friend).

    In fact, I cannot think of any other of the men who knew him that are still on any sort of friendly terms with him.

    Kind of fits in with a general trend I have noticed over the years – when a woman decides to dump her husband (and take the kids away from him), other women tend to rally around her, and support her with a chorus of, “you go grrl!”

    Conversely, in my experience, if a man abandons wife and children, other men tend to shun him with a chorus of, “go away, a$$hole!”

  223. I have always taken our kids to the doctor. I like to keep an eye on their medical issues and I understand the jargon better than my wife. But I am like Elspeth’s husband. There are some household tasks I leave to my wife. I just retired, so we will probably renegotiate a bit, but I am not becoming a “househusband”.

    My broader point is that men do plenty around the house, not all of it outdoors. Each couple finds their own level. My father was no feminist, but he cooked breakfast every morning for us, in Australia in the 1960s.

  224. lauravdm2011 says:

    Wow, this whole ‘taking the kids to the doctor’s office’ have got some of you in an uproar! After our first born, I went back to work part-time as a software educator. I then came home and did all those womanly chores that supposedly women love to do, you know, cook, clean, cut the grass, paint, etc.
    Should I mention that when I was 7 months pregnant with baby #1, my husband asked me if I could ‘cut the grass at night so the neighbors wouldn’t see me.?’ Okay, red flag right there but the nurturing in me let it go. After baby #2, I again went back to work part-time but baby #2 was a bit sickly and so someone had to take him to the doctor. Being an instructor, if wasn’t there for class, it wasn’t going to get taught by itself and hence, I had to quit my job because he certainly couldn’t take off from work. (Oh, and by the way, my salary compared to his.)

    When I said I ‘helped him with his career’ – he worked at home. He told me, not asked me, that I would be his personal secretary, I did his accounts receivable, I was the customer service/complant department and I proofread his manuals. (that’s my definition of ‘helping him with his career’) One minute I was nursing a baby while singing a nursery song to the others and the next I was running down the basement answering his phone sounding mighty professional, I have always taken pride in whatever task is put before me.

    When he walked out on me and his kids, it wasn’t for another woman. It was to play ice hockey, ice and roller skate! His boys played hockey and he never wanted to take them – now I know why – he wanted to do it himself instead.

    He still works but every free minute he gets he is either skating on the ice or on the rink. He has no time to call his kids – he thinks they should call him.

    And let me just say, we wanted these kids – yes we – and to compare being ‘stuck at a job all day’ or ‘staying at home’ – at my job, I wore a suit and high heals – a good 3 inches – I was not allowed to sit. I was on my feet for 7 hours. I had more energy on the days that I worked than the days that I stayed home with my kids – you have to watch them 24/7, and entertain them (I didn’t use a TV to babysit them). Some of us moms don’t sit on the couch eating bon bons all day.

    As I said in my first post, you haven’t walked in my shoes, nor I in yours. So quit assumin’ and judgin’. I am trying to get a positive outlook on life and I was replying to a woman who had one and I wanted to thank her. I was searching the internet for something entirely different. This whole forum was about women being done with men. I guess there are some women out there who feel their whole purpose is to please a man and obey his every command. I interpreted my vows a completely different way. My bad!

    I’m not here to bash men; I’m here to tell my side of the story as to why I am done with men even before I turn 55. If there are any men out there who think women are their equal, and treat them with dignity and respect, I sure would like to hear from them ,,,,, complete …. silence!

  225. slwerner says:

    lauravdm2011 – “So quit assumin’ and judgin’.”

    Given that it was you who started in with the snarky “How many of you men…”, that same remark would be also apply to you.

    You give us plenty of detail on how your husband was, well, not exactly what a husband should be, but then, with about zero knowledge of any of us, you start throwing out those typical anti-male assumptions, seeming to judge that all men are like what your husband was like.

    I can understand that you don’t appreciate others, like myself, making assumptions about you and what happened in your marriage based on generalizations about the behaviors of other women.

    Fair enough.

    So, consider that men might not appreciate you doing the same.

    “I’m not here to bash men”

    You sure have a funny way of not bashing, then don’t you.

    Let me remind you of what you posted:

    “As long as this country is run by men who feel women are only worth 70 cents to the dollar vs. men, feel women have it easier than men, things will never change for MEN.

    Women, on the other hand, are finally starting to figure it out. We are seeing what it really is like to live with a man and yes, be his mother – because that is what the man chooses – he chooses not to “be a man” and grow up and share the responsibilties of playing house. He chooses to remain a boy and complain about how women don’t treat them well. He thinks going to work all day to ‘make the money’ somehow absolves him of having to do anything else.”

    Really? You’re not here to bash men?

    Gee, I’d hate to see what you’d be posting if you were.

  226. lauravdm2011 says:

    Nope, I really wasn’t trying to bash men…

  227. Laura, that 70 cent thing is inflammatory nonsense. You must know better than that.

  228. c says:

    I am a 45 year old spinster with a lot of male companionship. But I am reading here that the good times will be over in about ten years. I am not sure when I need to not have men anymore. But on the day I decide I will sit on the couch in celebration and eat all the potato chips I want. And I won’t care because all the men are off chasing younger women and I can now be fat. And I am looking forward to being fat too. At what age can I start letting myself go because it’s over anyway?

  229. Bob says:

    @Laura – You’re really letting your emotions cloud your logic. Just because you had a dick husband back in the day doesn’t mean any of these things which we say aren’t true. It’s good you supported him, if he’s going to be a hole there’s nothing you can do, but don’t take it out on mankind. Plenty of men treat their wives great for years only to have them cheat and leave them. My aunt up and left her husband and 5 sons for some random guy.

    The 70 cents on the dollar thing is simply untrue. If it were true, I could open a corporation in any field and hire all women and undercut every other corporation or firm out there and become a near instant millionaire. Plus, the fact is, men shoul make more, as we cannot get pregnant and won’t be taken out of the labor market for extended periods for child rearing. We’re better, safer investments for many lines of work. We were built better to handleanual labor than women, and we Have much better longevity as we tend to be more ambitious all around, and we don’t burn out mentally as easily as women do in general. That’s why even though women may make more than men do the same work due to sexist, Anti-capitalist laws, we will always dominate corporate boardrooms, legislatures and military leadership. And American men will not suffer any damn quotas.

  230. Suz says:

    Laura, I believe you weren’t trying to bash men. The problem is that like 99% of Western women, you have never learned NOT to bash men. From the “boys are so dumb” days of childhood, we have been taught to bash men, subtlely and blatantly. Every negative thought you’ve ever had about men, legitimate or not, has been reinforced by society. This is a safe world in which to despise men.

    It sounds like your husband was a selfish, arrogant jerk. If you’re telling the truth about your marriage you were probably a good wife, supportive of a man who took your support for granted and used you. If you contributed 50% of the income and 90% of the home chores, he was not doing his part. I understand your bitterness but I have good news for you: he was the exception, not the rule. The Manosphere is a wonderful place for a good woman to learn what’s really going on, and I suggest you snoop around; this is where you will learn what to teach your sons so they won’t grow up to be like their father. Far too many of the men here have come from relationships and marriages where they contributed 90% of the income and 40-70% of the home chores, and were used and taken for granted. They feel very much like you do, but they have far less support form a society that tells them to suck it up and do their manly duty.

    Yes there’s a lot of bitterness expressed here, by men who have been betrayed – by women, by other men, and by society as a whole. But most of the commenters here don’t hate women; they value REAL women, as women, not as short men with boobs (which is exactly what feminism has taught women to act like.) You may have seen comments from men who appear to be arrogant jerks. God knows such men exist. Keep reading; the dynamics here are fascinating, and to a degree they do mirror the dynamics on women’s forums. However there is far more tolerance for diverse opinions here, than I’ve ever seen among women. Comments here occasionally promote extreme or irrational mindsets; more often than not those comments are dissected and refuted, or acknowledged and appropriately labelled as “fringe.” Sometimes they are ignored, and sometimes their legitimate aspects are validated. But they are all welcome.

    Women are empathetic creatures who need sympathy and support, so don’t feel “weak” for seeking it out, but for your own sake stick with supporters who say, ” Your husband was a jerk.” Stay away from those who say, “Men are jerks.” It’s a lie. You have been victimized and you now have a choice: Live as a victim and wallow in it, or leave your victim status behind.

  231. Donald Drew says:

    Tell any story you want, but men and women do not divorce without some reason. When you are young and marry for the 1st time you have no stories to tell and it is the beginning of your happy or sad story. My advice to to all divorced…leave the past as quick as possible…..I was married 25 years, end of my story. It is true that most men over 40 are not looking for a women their same age. Just the way it is. Does not mean a divorced woman over 50 has no value, as many do. It cracks me up that many women on this blog boast about older women snagging young men. Just a story and in the long run, does not hold water. Any 45 year old man seriously looking for a relationship with a 60 year old woman has a motive, just like a 30 year old woman dating a 55 year old man. To remind you that the focus of this blog is “Are 55 year old women done with men”. The answer is pretty clear from the responses…not because they want to be…

  232. Dragonfly says:

    SUZ…..extremely concise summary of the comments here. People who have been hurt will lash out…often at the opposite sex as a whole, instead of the individual. This is a good discussion, and it is interesting to hear the perspectives of all.

  233. lauravdm2011 says:

    I don’t know – maybe it’s the cold weather freezing my brain cells but it seems to me that all women are good for is staying home and raising the kids and we should leave the rest to the men. After all, according to you, Bob, :

    Plus, the fact is, men should make more, as we cannot get pregnant and won’t be taken out of the labor market for extended periods for child rearing. We’re better, safer investments for many lines of work. We were built better to handle manual labor than women, and we Have much better longevity as we tend to be more ambitious all around, and we don’t burn out mentally as easily as women do in general.

    Maybe I just don’t know my place in society….

    And Suz, I was never brought up that “boys are so dumb”. I’ve never heard that in my life. I was brought up that boys could do anything, stay out later than girls, and the old “boys will be boys”. What I will take from you is “leave your victim status behind” .

    I would like to know what a man is looking for in a woman….Bob?

  234. Just1X says:

    Hey Laura, your timing is great!

    Dalrock has a post with ‘boys are dumb’ written all over it, hot from the lame stream media.

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/why-have-misandry-delivered-when-you-can-bake-it-at-home/

    Stuff men look for?
    honesty and a grip on reality (sorry to be the bearer of bad news as you’re short on both, judging by your post)

  235. Bob says:

    A woman’s role isn’t only to stay at home and take care of the kids, it’s her primary role. It should supercede all else. Taking care of the kids is in fact the most important job there is because kids are the next generation of humanity. It should not be looked down upon as if it is an inferior job to a “career” or as if it sucks, because the reality is it is extremely important and most women like it because it is in the nature to nurture. Years of feminism have conditioned women to think that raising the kids is inferior, that men can do just as good of a job of it, that the “patriarchy” has forced women to do it so they can go have big fun careers, etc. Your place in society is decided by many factors, and we live in America so you’re perfectly welcome to shun motherhood and staying home and instead having a fulltime career while you’re young, or finding a man who will share the chores 50/50 with you, or whatever you want. It’s just not Biblical (in most cases) and women are usually much happier staying home and raising a family, it’s a scientific fact. Happiness rates for women have plummeted since the 1950’s.

    What men look for in a woman is rather simple, we’re not that complex. A man wants a woman who will let him lead and loves and takes care of him and the kids. It’s nice to come home to a homemade dinner, to have someone who listens to you, takes care of your laundry and the housework, etc. It lets a man work 8-10 hours a day without going insane. I’m sure you would also like that kind of stuff, but are you willing to work 8-10 hours a day 5 times a week and have a stay at home husband? If so, you’re very different from the vast majority of women who would not want to take on a traditionally masculine role. Most women find stay at home dads unattractive, there was a study that came out a couple months ago showing that couples with switched roles usually have terrible sex lives.

    There are women out there who can’t handle staying home with the kids, and as I said, they’re free to do whatever they want. But most men aren’t looking for them. We’re not selfish, we’re just oriented towards being in the provider position. That’s just the way we were made. Men really should be the head of the household, as that is what is what most men and women want, even if some women won’t state it that way. It doesn’t mean a man has to be a domineering jerk, it means he takes total responsibility for the welfare of his family and its provisions. Most women find a man who leads attractive, and shun those who just want to follow the woman’s lead as if that’s what women want.

    If you really did the things you said you did, and did not give your husband a hard time about it, then he is a real dumbass who does not know how great he had it, and left an excellent wife. But again, you need to realize women stiff great men too, and not take out your frustrations on the other gender or turn to crazy feminist theories which do not match with reality, and just cause you to grow more and more bitter.

  236. Anonymous Reader says:

    Suz
    But most of the commenters here don’t hate women; they value REAL women, as women, not as short men with boobs (which is exactly what feminism has taught women to act like.)

    Actually, feminism has taught women to be short, angry men with boobs. The perpetual anger is the cherry on top of the sundae, as it were. Nothing says “good times” like listening to yet another angry monologue about someone else’s work at the end of a long day.

    Thanks for reminding me to post this.

  237. Suz says:

    “Laura:…And Suz, I was never brought up that “boys are so dumb”. I’ve never heard that in my life.”
    If you grew up in the US this past half century, you HAVE heard it. Perhaps you just didn’t notice it. It’s everywhere and frequently it’s subtle.

    “…it seems to me that all women are good for is staying home and raising the kids and we should leave the rest to the men.”

    It’s not male oppression, it is our biological design, and feminism denies biology. This is not to say that women don’t have the right to follow any path they choose; this world is full of women who are well-suited to non-domestic work, and who have the opportunity to pursue it. The problem is women who make unrealistic choices, then demand that “someone else” take up their slack – someone like a husband, or the government, or their employer, or daycare. That is a result of another lie of feminism: “women can have it all.” We can’t. Sorry. A woman who chooses to have children should strive to raise them. Of course these days most mothers “must” work outside the home in order to pay the bills. Really? How did that come to be the norm? Why did they choose to have children before they could raise them on one income? Why didn’t they work for a few years, save their income, and put it into a house they could afford? Because someone told them they didn’t have to. Western culture tell us we can have a “rewarding career” AND be good mothers, that we can still be “good mothers” if we pay someone else to raise our children. It tells us not to bother wasting our time being good wives, and that our husbands have a duty to sacrifice so that we can “have it all.” Because we women are entitled to have it all.

    It’s been a hundred years since feminism demanded legal equality; now it demands inequality, legally, socially and morally. Feminism has made it easy for women to be irresponsible, to attempt to do it all, instead making a choice, sticking with it, and doing it properly. Men don’t have that option. Most men don’t object to “career women” per se. They object to “career women” who expect men to see them as ideal potential wives/mothers. They object to wives/mothers who resent having sacrificed their “real” careers in order to raise children, then take their resentment out on their husbands. Feminism has turned men and children into objects, useful tools and accessories for women to play with. Western culture has downgraded the position of wife-and-mother from a vocation to a part time job. If you doubt that, look around you at two generations of children raised by mothers who think “mothering” is optional, and by ex-wives who think child support and public aid are just as good as a stable family.

    Let me tell you about two of the smartest, most responsible women I know – my sisters, aged 50 and 51. “SisterMediator” married her college boyfriend and worked her tail off for a few years as a technical editor. She left her job near the end of her only pregnancy, and spent the next 20 years raising her child. Her husband is an attorney whose career has stumbled over some awful roadblocks, but SisterMediator never had to go back to work because they were frugal financial planners. She went back to school while her daughter was in college, and she now has good part time job. She “had it all” but she did it all one thing at a time, and she didn’t abdicate her moral responsibility to any aspect of her life.

    SisterFed just retired from federal law enforcement. It wasn’t her dream career, but it was a good career. She never married or had children; she didn’t even have houseplants because she traveled so much. Her home is paid off and she’s building a cabin in the mountains. If she had married, she would have “given it all up” to be a mother. In a heartbeat.

    Neither sister ever made a commitment she couldn’t, wouldn’t or didn’t keep. Think about it. How rare is that? 90% of American women make life choices that force them to break their commitments. We don’t think things through; we don’t have to, because someone else will be there to clean up out messes. Men are getting tired of being that someone.

  238. lauravdm2011 says:

    @Bob
    I love motherhood – I raised (and am sill raising some) my kids to be good, produtive citizens. Treat people the way you want t be treated. Unfortunatly, society doesn’t think stay-at-home-moms have a tough life at all. No one sees how organized a good mother has to be. Shuffling school, activities, cooking, cleaning – it’s no big deal. Being at the office, on the other hand, is a big deal!

    You say women like motherhood because by nature we nurture. I agree with that. How, Bob, does it feel to be nurtured? How does it feel to have a meal wating for you on the table when you get home from work? Do you enjoy that your suits are waiting for you in your closet fresh from the cleaners? Your laundry folded and put away in your drawers? How do you feel being taken care of day in and day out? You speak of working outside the home 8-10 hours a day. What are you doing on the weekend? Waiting to get nurtured again?

    I ask because the women I know would also like to be ‘nurtured’ by their husbands but because their husbands work 8 – 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, they are ‘too tired’ to nurture their wives and after all, according to you, nurturing is not part of a man’s role in society.

    A man wants to lead the family – translation:

    A man will do what he wants when he wants – I do my job, now you, little lady, do yours and shut those kids up so I can watch TV.

    A man wants to be a provider – translation:

    My job as a man is to go to work 8 – 10 hours a day, 5 days a week You figure out how to pay the bils on my salary – cut back if you have to. I make the money; I deserve to spend it anyway I feel fit – YOU, little lady, cut back.

    A man has total responsibility of the welfare of his family – translation:

    I work all day, I’m too tired to take the kids to practice. What do YOU do all day! You’re the mother, it’s YOUR job to take care of the kids – you’re the nurturer now go!

    Men really should be the head of the household, as that is what is what most men and women want – translation:

    The head of the household makes all the household rules. The man is in charge and that’s the way we men like it. Let’s put our women in their places – taking care of me, me, me.

    It is my experience, Bob, that women wouldn’t mind taking care of the house if they were truly appreciated by both their spouses and their kids. Children are smart and they learn how to treat their mother by the way the father treats his wife. If the husband is doing his job besides his 8 -10 hours a day, life would be good. Moms would be respected. Women might be nurturers by nature, but hey, we would like a little nurturing ourselves.

    Your sentence about coming home to a homecooked meal, etc. leads me to believe that what a man really wants is a mother with benefits….

  239. Suz says:

    “…It is my experience…”
    That right there. Your experience is that you were married to a self-entitled horse’s ass who twisted some valid principles around to suit his whims. Why are you attacking the principles instead of the individual man who abused them? And why did you marry a prick? Were there no red flags as to his character? Did you see them and ignore them? Did you marry him before you had time to see them? Did you allow yourself to get pregnant and “have to” marry him? I’m not absolving him of his idiocy, but I’m tired of society absolving “victim” wives of their complicity in bad marriages. You can’t do anything about his mistakes, but you can learn from yours. My suggestion: take your bitterness and turn it into productive anger – at him for taking so much, and at yourself for letting him take. This world is full of men who would give their right arms for a wife like you, out of appreciation, not because they think they deserve it. They have experienced the other kind of wife so they know your worth, but don’t expect them to trust you right away. Like you, they’ve been badly burned.

  240. lauravdm2011 says:

    I shouldn’t even answer your question but I will. No, I did not ‘get pregnant’ We were married for four years and purchased a house in which to raise our family. Don’t really know what difference it would have made – it takes two to make a baby – and as a responsible adult I would have never ‘trapped’ my HUSBAND (or anyone else) by producing a child!

    Isn’t that how we form our opinions – by experience? I have spoken with many women from all walks of life and we all seem to be experiencing the same things – women are here to serve and please the man while the man provides the money so he can be waited on hand and foot. I seem to hear a lot of women talk about the ‘pricks’ out there. You have DISMISSED my whole post to a couple of words – “it is my experience” and twisted my words in such a way that all you got out of this was I am bitter.

    Suz, what are the principles to which you refer? And where oh where are these men who appreciate a good woman? What part of the planet are you speaking of? I’m in – as long as it’s not too cold there. :)

  241. slwerner says:

    lauradm2011 – “You have DISMISSED my whole post to a couple of words – “it is my experience” and twisted my words in such a way that all you got out of this was I am bitter.”

    Because you continue to act as if YOUR EXPERIENCE dictates the way men/husbands generally behave. Outside of the ghetto and the bottom end of the working class, what you describe has not been the norm of family life for quite some time.

    While there may be a few men who come home from work and just want to watch TV, it seems that theres a good chance that they are men with very physically demanding jobs. Still, the Nielsen ratings don’t lie, the primary audience for TV consumption has long been women – and not just daytime TV, but prime time as well. The media and advertisers know better than to risk angering their biggest demographic, thus the imagery is only of useless dim-witted husbands, and not of lazy fat semi-comatose female TV-watchin’ couch potatoes. No matter that they exist in the millions.

    And, both of these negative stereo-types are primarily representative of the lower socioeconomic classes. As one looks further up the classes, one finds that married men are still largely invested in both home and family. And far more men are “forced” out of their marriages, families, and children’s lives than chose to leave them. Woman not only file the majority of divorce action, but they are also well known to employ false accusation against the fathers of their children as part of a strategy to secure primary, if not sole, custody of the children (and the attenuate support money).

    You continue to bash men collectively, while trying to deny you are doing exactly what you are doing. Now, you bitterly complain that your bitter comments are being sen as bitter.

    You might want to Google “cognitive dissonance”, or at least “intellectual dishonesty”.

  242. 7man says:

    I detect a deep insecurity in Laura. She takes offense with Bob’s truthful comment that men are better equipped to do some things. She lives in the land of a false “should be.”

    She projects that acting like a mother was her primary role as a wife. I wonder if she has considered that her attitude toward her ex-husband in large part created the circumstance that she now complains about. A man does not want a mother, he wants a wife! A man wants an active willing sexual partner and I wonder if she embraced this role. If a woman insists on being a mother to him, he will close himself off to her. A man does not want to make love to his mother!

    Hence why most good men avoid women over 55; he does not want another surrogate mother. If a woman over 55 doesn’t act like his mother, has a good attitude, is reasonably attractive, she is likely to find a good man. This will not happen on her “empowered,” entitlement terms but is possible if she is a good feminine woman.

  243. lauravdm2011 says:

    Stupid me for thinking I have a brain to have an opinion on anything! My bad! Trust me; women don’t want to be a mother to our husbands….read Bob’s post of how simple a man is and what makes a man happy and then remember that that is exactly what a mother does for her child/children.

    When a man comes home after work, what does he do? Have a meaninful conversation with his wife?

    Tell me, slwerner, 7man, suz and the rest of you out there, if men are so wonderful then why are women the ones who initiate the divorces? (And far more men are “forced” out of their marriages, families, and children’s lives than chose to leave them. This line taken from slwerner’s post) And what you all post is FACT and what I post comes from a BITTER person?

  244. Suz says:

    Laura,
    The principles to which I refer are the biologically based “traditional” gender roles.

    I think you’re talking to the wrong women; find some who are happy in their marriages. They’re all around you, but they’re fairly quiet. They’re the ones who don’t join in the man-bashing conversations. Here’s a hint: 30 years ago my boss married the smartest man she’d ever met. He is now “utterly incompetent, an idiot.” Not because he never does stuff around the house, but because he never does exactly what she wants, when she wants it, and how she wants it done. Years ago, he gave up trying. Have you met this woman? “I seem to hear a lot of women talk about the ‘pricks’ out there.” I think you have. Stay away from her. She doesn’t want you to be any happier than she is.

    As for good men, a lot of them have been snapped up and held onto by good women. A lot more of them have been dumped by shrews. They’re hurt, angry, and defensive, just like you, so on the surface they may not look like good guys. If you want a man to look for the good in you, look for the good in him. If you’d rather not bother, then I guess you’re done with men after all. If you remain bitter, it’s your choice.

    It’s possible that the smartest thing you’ve ever done was to come to this forum. You can use what you learn here to support your negative bias, or you can develop an understanding of men’s humanity – what they don’t dare to say out loud in Western society, the good and the bad. Seek out the good. Get comfortable with it. Learn to recognize it so you can see it in men you meet. Warts and all, the Manosphere is a gift to moral women who ache to be true to their deepest identities. But be warned, if you accept this gift you will be spitting in society’s face; our culture denies the reality of the “female” identity, and it leave men twisting in the wind, with no good choices.

  245. 7man says:

    @Laura,
    You are both confirming that you think a woman’s role is to be like a mother and then denying that you want to do that. And you play the victim because others do not agree with you. How is a “meaningful conversation” possible when you resort to this tactic? No one called you stupid, so stop your whining!

    Did you ever allow a “meaningful conversation” about something he wanted to talk about? Did you expect him to thank you for all the things you did for him? Did you ever thank him for going to work every day and earning the money to provide for his family? Were you an active willing sexual partner? Did you try to tell him how to do things, what he should do and when he should do it? Did you follow his lead? Did you trust him or did your mistrust and contempt for him cause him to give up trying to please a woman that could never be pleased? Have you always played the “poor Laura” victim role?

    “if men are so wonderful then why are women the ones who initiate the divorces?”

    First no one said men are so wonderful. You are using a sarcastic projection. Stop it because this is the poison that helped ruin your marriage!

    An untrusting woman attempts to control everything around her and the people in her life in order to feel secure. Such a woman is also not sexually generous. This never works and a woman ends up feeling even more insecure and exhausted. This leads to unhappiness, blaming others and contempt for the man and then she files for divorce because of her FEELINGS. Other women placate and pander to her about this decision. That is the reason why so many women initiate divorces.

  246. Suz says:

    ” if men are so wonderful then why are women the ones who initiate the divorces?”
    Logical fallacy. Men are “forced out of their marriages” because women suddenly realize that they didn’t marry prince charming. They are unhaaaapy, and they believe they are entitled to be fulfilled. It never occurs to them to to fulfill themselves, to live out their commitments, work through the hard parts, and build a fulfilling marriage. Abuse, addiction and infidelity are valid reasons for divorce. Varying forms of the seven-year-itch are not. They are obstacles to be overcome. But it’s a hell of a lot easier to walk away with the house, the kids and the child support, than it is to turn a weak marriage into a strong one.

    “Unhappy” women initiate the majority of divorces BECAUSE THEY CAN. The consequences for doing so are negligible. “Unhappy” men have a lot more to lose. Justify it any way you will, but decades of statistics don’t lie. No fault divorce and pro-female family law has made it easy for women to back out of their so-called “commitments.” God forbid we fragile flowers should have to take the bad with the good.

  247. Bob says:

    @Laura – You’re a complete idiot and need to stay away from arguing with anybody if you think your experience is a valid basis to extrapolate across all men and women. That’s just absurd. I’ve had bad experiences with women myself and I don’t assume all women are sluts and bitches.

    There is a lot of crossover between a wife and a mother. She makes dinner for both her husband and children, for example. It would be kind of weird if you just made dinner for the kids and ignored your husband, or vice versa. Just because my mom made dinner and I’d like my wife to, it doesn’t mean I want a mom. Both traditional mothers and traditional wives make dinner, do laundry, etc. I do plenty of both too and did my entire single life so it’s not like it’s foreign to me. But if I’m at work all day and she’s at home all day, why on earth would I do the laundry? There are a few exceptions, but in general, it makes no sense for me to do the laundry.

    Furthermore, most women want kids and like cooking and taking care of domestic work. I’ve dated women who have high end political careers who wanted to leave that to be a wife and mother and live on an Army base (I went from politics to the military). If they didn’t like traditional gender roles then why did they want that? Look, most women want to be subservient to the man and lead by the man. They are looking for a guy who will take charge and provide. There’s a minority of women like you who want a more feminine male to share the chores with, and that’s fine. Maybe you can find a soft man who wants what you want. But it’s futile to come here and criticize people who don’t want what you want, and it’s downright foolish to assume all men are like your husband. Your experience is 1 example out of billions, and no, rational human beings do not argue solely from their experiences and neglect the rest of mankind.

  248. Elspeth says:

    Bob explains the dynamics of family relationships very well.

    Laura, I think you should take a step back and really consider what is being said here. There are plenty of people here who offer comments I disagree with from time to time, but it seems everyone in this discussion is contributing in good faith. The truth is that most women today are ill-equipped to deal with the realities of married life without reacting as if they were the victim of an elaborate hoax, LOL.

  249. Bob says:

    Elspeth is right. That’s why you need to know exactly what a woman wants before you marry her. It’s important to clarify what you expect an listen to what she wants. Almost always the woman wants a traditional role eventually. They’re just looking for the right guy to do it with.

    Suz is also right. On this website you have a large example of evidence of women treating men poorly, yet you ignore all of it and focus on only your personal, bad experience. You ignore all these men telling you their stories, and just keep pointing to yourself and your victimization from your ex-husband as if you are the only person who matters and everyone else is irrelevant or lying. There are bad men and bad women. Just because there are bad men, it isn’t an argument against traditional gender roles. You’re basically saying this: “My ex husband was a complete jerk and I hated my life that I voluntarily chose to live, therefore, traditional gender roles are bad, and all men are lazy and looking for mothers.”

  250. lauravdm2011 says:

    Funny, your opinions are factual and I am an idiot for sharing mine! Whatever you say, Bob, and the rest of you out there! You are so right and I’m an idiot! Happy?

  251. CL says:

    You’re basically saying this: “My ex husband was a complete jerk and I hated my life that I voluntarily chose to live, therefore, traditional gender roles are bad, and all men are lazy and looking for mothers.”

    Exactly. You can choose to be bitter toward men in general or you can admit that you chose poorly, take responsibility for your part, and try to avoid repeating mistakes.

  252. ybm says:

    Laura, you are a lifelong victim, from birth everything has been a conspiracy against you to belittle you and make you small. We had a meeting in 1959 to determine our next victim, we decided to name her Laura, and so your mother was given the task to begin. Now we have succeeded in our great work, and our fruits have ripened into delicious bitterness for us to feed upon. We have instilled in you a feeling that everyone is your enemy, and nothing except your own ego will protect you from our tendrils digging deep into your subconscious.

    If any of this sounds ridiculous, it is only because of our perfect training, ignore the man behind the curtain.

  253. Elspeth says:

    Funny, your opinions are factual and I am an idiot for sharing mine!

    No, Laura. The point is that your marital experience is just that- your experience. The reality is that most married women look forward to switching to a more traditional role when they have their first child. Here’s just one article among many I found after a quick glance:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251873/What-women-want-2010-A-husband-wholl-main-breadwinner.html

    Amazingly, and I’m speaking from my experience here conversing with numerous wives over the years, these same women expect their husbands to share household responsibilities in much the same way they did when both of them worked. This is an absurd expectation, and they are stunned, shocked, betrayed when a man who has worked 8-10 hours doesn’t want to come home and put away the dishes.

    Honestly, I think modern women watch too much television and read too many insipid magazine articles. I don’t know how else to explain it.

    If a woman does not want to fulfill the traditional role she should make that clear, and if her feelings change she needs to be prepared for a reasonable renegotiation of the marital dynamic.

    Sadly most wives approach marriage with a “my way or the highway” mentality. And if the husband doesn’t play along, he’s painted as evil.

    I didn’t mean to pile on here Laura, I just fear you don’t have an open mind and are completely unwilling to even consider marriage from a husband’s perspective. And it’s impossible to be a good mate without the ability to do that.

    You should probably remain single going forward until you can.

  254. Elspeth says:

    For the record, I am a wife of nearly 18 years (anniversary next month) so I am fully aware of the challenges as well as the joys of married life.

  255. 7man says:

    @Laura
    “Funny, your opinions are factual and I am an idiot for sharing mine! Whatever you say, Bob, and the rest of you out there! You are so right and I’m an idiot! Happy?”

    Still you play the victim since others do not agree with you. Stop your whining! We do not exist to pander to you. Good men will run from you because of your attitude. You seem to be a perpetual victim by blaming men and never looking inside yourself for your own culpability.

    Who will volunteer to host the pity party for Laura?

  256. Suz says:

    Laura, if you are still reading this, YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT! (Unless you’re a very stubborn idiot, in which case you’re in over your head.) Please, seriously consider the facts that are presented to you and try not to take the criticism personally. The guys here feel free to express themselves unhindered by delicate social niceties. That’s why I like them even when I disagree with them. The slings and arrows may be a little painful, but that’s the way of rational unfiltered truth – sometimes it hurts.

    I have seen several guys here acknowledge that some men are jerks and that your husband is likely one of them. That is one hell of a concession to a stranger, in a forum that is biased in favor of males. Just because nobody is patting you on the head and empathizing with your self-pity, doesn’t mean we’re being irrational, or that we don’t care. On the contrary, we are very rationally analyzing your situation, we’re just not giving you extra points for being a victim. This is a place to find valuable knowledge, not useless sympathy. You’re getting the same message everybody gets. Nobody here says,”Suck it up and do what you’re told.” They say, “Suck it up and do what YOU know is right, regardless of ‘the rules.’ Learn and move forward.” If men are so uncaring and selfish, why would they bother?

  257. lauravdm2011 says:

    Suz, thanks for telling me I’m not an idiot. If I had the time, I would go back and re-read all my post and analyze my writings and see if I feel I’m trying to be the “victim”. I don’t need pity, nor do I want it. Yes, I had a bad experience -26 years worth. Why did I stay? Duh, for the sake of the children – all the books say you should – but now they’re changing their minds on that one, too and I guess I had no time to read up on the new findings.

    I don’t need anyone to agree with my opinions – I would just like for them to be acknowledged and not dismissed. They are my opinions based on personal experience and from listening to other people talk over the years. So 7man, if you host my pity party, I like my beer icy cold – domestic is fine – chips and popcorn would go well with my beers. Oh, and I’d prefer music in the background and no television – I must be an exception – I don’t watch TV.

  258. James says:

    @Laura – I am sorry that the man you married turned out to be a jerk. This blog is not the best place to find understanding and support, because many of us men have been screwed over by female jerks. The feelings on both sides are very raw. I wish we could all be a bit more civil.

    “Your time” may begin sooner than you think. The phrase “mother with benefits” will make you famous for 15 minutes. Expect a phone call from Oprah any day now …

  259. Just1X says:

    Might we acknowledge that there might just be another side to the multi-decade story of woe?

    It’s very rare that one side owns the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    Don’t expect me to be party to the stoning of ‘Mr Laura’ just because she’s screaming victim.

    In real life I’d be heading for the exit as soon as the oh-woe-is-me started up. As would any man with a brain, stay away from the drama queens – and no, it wouldn’t make any difference to me if every single word you wrote was true. My story makes me very aware of the special way ex-wives can rationalise their divorce, lying did not seem to be any problem whatsoever for her, or her mother.

    You came to the wrong place for a pity-party, especially a femine one – but you knew that, so why are you here? I can’t think of any healthy reasons.

  260. Marilyn says:

    “Unhappy” women initiate the majority of divorces BECAUSE THEY CAN. The consequences for doing so are negligible. “Unhappy” men have a lot more to lose. Justify it any way you will, but decades of statistics don’t lie. No fault divorce and pro-female family law has made it easy for women to back out of their so-called “commitments.” God forbid we fragile flowers should have to take the bad with the good.
    ***************************************************************************************************************************

    Very true. In most cases, it is easier for a woman to initiate a divorce. Even if she is the town “cougar” and having sex with many young men, the courts will still award her 50% or more of the husband’s assets even if he had most of this stuff before he met the wife. Pre-marital property issues do not stand up in family court any longer. It is easy to claim abuse even if there had never been any police reports or trips to the emergency room. A man has to prove a negative. Unless a woman is wealthy, marriage is far riskier for a man.

  261. CL says:

    It is easy to claim abuse even if there had never been any police reports or trips to the emergency room.

    All a woman has to do is throw out accusations and she is rewarded with cash for it. Even if the man is never convicted of anything, his reputation can be ruined by false accusations and thereafter he is treated as a criminal because of it. When you sling mud, some sticks.

    It is easier for most people to believe the worst things about a man (even if that man is their own brother or son) than it is for them to believe the whole system is screwed and that a woman would make hideous accusations that aren’t even true.

  262. Donald Drew says:

    @ Marilyn…While this blog is about women being through with men you have brought up a great Blog idea for Dalrock…Are men done with women after Divorce. You are so right on and believe me, after a man gets a divorce (if he has any worth) in this day and time, he may not lose interest in women, but he certainly loses interest in marriage. If you live in some states, like California, you not only lose half of everything, but get saddled with alimony. If you were married over 5 years, that alimony goes on “forever” or until the woman remarries. I was in the Medical Device business for 35 years and set up a speaking and training engagement for a well known Doctor in Los Angeles to attend our meeting in Palm Springs. I just happened to be in the parking lot when he drove up in a 10 plus year old volkswagen bug. I asked if he was a car collector and he said, “no, I have been divorced twice”. I was married for 25 years when precious decided to find herself, file for divorce and gave me the two daughters to raise 24 / 7. Personally I wake up every day and thank her for leaving. It was a little tramatic to deal with this as I was always the provider / daddy. I learned to become a parent and raising the girls was the best experience of my life. With a free mind not bogged down with why isn’t the wife happy issues, I recovered financially in less than 5 years. I do not know the number or percentage, but I do know I have been forced to give up good relationships because I would not take the next step … remarriage…..My guess is that more men than not are riding in this boat with me….After the children are gone…why would anyone want to remarry….I know the answer; “security”.

    I do not even know how I got on this blog or why, but I get email notices and read the comments and can not believe some of the post. I just had to thank you for writing it as it really is, even if a little off the subject. You are my new Blog hero , hahaha

  263. Donald Drew says:

    @CL and any men on this blog. The wife may start the divorce proceedings, but it is the real slim of the earth (Lawyers) that come up with ideas to make a man miserable. Women that decide to divorce are normally angry at the husband and lawyers can give them ideas to help them do what is called in the legal system “get a leg up”. Here is free advice to all men getting a divorce. The legal system is in place for every state. Learn what the law is for divorce in your state. Most states view a divorce settlement to be 50-50. If that is the law, that is what a judge will rule. You lose if you let your lawyers convince you that it should be 40-60 or even worse. Take your medicine and save a bundle by filing for court ordered mediation. At best, this takes 6 months and you can be divorced in 6 months. You do not have to write nasty letters back and forth through your lawyers. One caveat does exist and this is if you are fighting over child custody. Then you do have to bring in court requested studies and be subject to therapy sessions. However, both the wife and husband are included in this. If the wife is dead set to just make you life miserable, you will run into obstacles, so you just stick to the court ordered mediation as it will happen. Part of that process is that the Judge is involved and if you can not decide on certain issues, they will and the divorce will happen within a week after the Mediation meeting. Do not let your lawyer or hers, set up Mediation other than court appointed. The lawyers will resist that path because it is the short cut to divorce. Remember, the judge has to abide by the Divorce Laws in your state, so the worst in most cases, is a loss of 50% of your assets. I have lived in California and Texas…if you must divorce..make sure it is not in California…

  264. Suz says:

    Just1X:
    “It’s very rare that one side owns the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”

    Yes. Absolutely, the benefit of the doubt was given, without being earned. However I’m actually kind of impressed with Laura. Like many of the men here, she’s hurting, she’s defensive and she’s lashing out, but I think she’s trying to listen.

    “If I had the time, I would go back and re-read all my post and analyze my writings and see if I feel I’m trying to be the “victim”

    That’s a reasonable statement, the sort rarely made by a woman who’s disgusted with the male gender at large. Not very many angry women come here and acknowledge that they might possibly be mistaken….

  265. Suz says:

    @ Donald Drew

    My sister is a mediator, having recently earned a masters in conflict theory/resolution. Her law firm doesn’t specialize in divorce, but of course it handles a few. Mediation appears to be a relatively safe alternative to the ‘whoever has the best lawyer, gets everything’ mentality that has become so pervasive. Shockingly, it actually forces parties to establish rational priorities…

  266. Just1X says:

    @Suz,

    I’m in happy agreement with what you wrote. It’s why I did not dive in and attack her (believe it or not), my aim was to point out that there is a critical audience here. The woe is me line is not going to garner automatic sympathy (from me at the very least).

    BTW I think that it is great that there is a large number of female posters here (relatively speaking). Very nice to see. I always knew NAWALT, but it’s still nice to see it proven by considered postings by women.

  267. Dragonfly says:

    I was married and divorced in Texas. My assets were tallied, as were his, in the process of division of assets. My personal assets totalled $750.00. His came to almost a quarter million. I received my modest assets, one year of modest alimony and that’s it. In Texas, separate property laws hold up, apparently. (All of his property was inherited.) So…divorce does not always favor the woman and screw the man. I wasn’t after his money, when marrying, or divorcing him.

  268. ybm says:

    Good for him, you have no right to his family wealth. I also feel you shouldn’t have received alimony.

  269. deti says:

    Donald Drew:

    Are men done with women after divorce? I would be. I’ve been married 15 years, most of it happy. If I ever found myself single, I’d never marry again. The laws and the culture are stacked against men to such an extent that marriage is no longer advantageous. I would not recommend that any unmarried man marry any woman in today’s SMP. Many modern women believe they have no marital obligations. Many modern women believe that marriage exists to enhance their personal happiness and that if they are not happy in their marriages, then husband is to blame.

    When you get right down to it, a man gets very little out of marriage other than regular sex. A married man mostly takes on burdens, not reap benefits. Most are more than willing to accept those burdens for the promise of regular sex with a reasonably attractive wife who is submissive and won’t divorce frivolously. Many women feel they aren’t obligated to provide even sex at reasonable intervals. We’re already seeing what happens with men’s sex lives. Some men get sex without marriage. Some men get sex from multiple partners. For those who cannot get sex, a few resort to prostitution. Most would prefer video games and internet porn to marrying or trying to marry.

    I’ve seen discussions on this and other blogs about when men initiate divorce and when women do. Here’s some more advice: Most often when a woman initiates divorce, she has been planning her exit for a long time. The telltale sign that a woman is planning to divorce you is her making major improvements in her physical appearance or to her wardrobe. She’s lost a lot of weight, changed her hairstyle, has new lingerie you’ve never seen before. By the time it gets to that point, she’s probably cheating on you. If you see your wife making major improvements, get to the bottom of it — and see a lawyer soon.

    By contrast, when a man wants out, he goes to a lawyer and just wants it done as quickly as possible.

    Laura: Your attitude suggests that you made a poor choice for a husband; and maybe marriage just wasn’t for you.

  270. Bob says:

    Laura, it seems you have trouble comprehending what you read. I never said you were an idiot for sharing your opinions. I said this: “You’re a complete idiot and need to stay away from arguing with anybody if you think your experience is a valid basis to extrapolate across all men and women.”

    There is a clear disconnect between what I say, and what you think I said, even though the words are plain on your computer monitor. If you cannot make sense out of what I write, then you should stop trying to argue. You don’t know what’s going on.

  271. Donald Drew says:

    @ deti; I believe you have a huge all men choir backing you up. I actually have a lot of male friends, but very few are single. I still enjoy women but not one of my retired over 60 men friends has any interest what so ever. My married friends, most under 60 moan and groan about being married. I play golf with a group of men every year in Pinehurst and only about 3 of us out of 30 is single. Of course after we play we spend time in the Club House (what is golf without libations and reflections / lies on the golf round) and the complaining starts. I have to listen to this for what seems like an eternity, then I am walking to the van and most of these old complainers are on the cell phone professing their love to the wife and how much they miss them…somebody is lying……go figure HAHAHA. I have been with a nice lady for 3 years and she is about 6 years younger. Without her I think I would become lazy and not be as healthy. We do not live together (mutual I think) and marriage is something we agree is not necessary at our age. I try to go to the gym 3 days a week and like clock work, I always get a text from her reminding me not to be a slacker, get to the gym. In contrast, my ex-wife fed me fast food and complained when I went to the gym…just the way it was for me. Hopefully you and your wife make it to Golden Pond…For me, life women seemed to really change when they took Ozzie and Harriett off the air……….Not all of the women on this sight get it….but some do. After 55 who cares what someone thinks, what is important is if you wake up the next day….This blog has been more active than I ever expected it to be…I guess it is a good place to vent….

  272. lauravdm2011 says:

    There are always exceptions to the rules. Women are asses. Men are asses. And then some of us don’t deserve the shit we stepped into. Or, maybe we did and just don’t see it the way our spouses did. No one is perfect. But you know, life isn’t fair.

    I happened upon this site accidentally. And then I somehow got drawn into the conversations. And now the nurturer in me, well, it doesn’t matter. You guys have been screwed by women – it’s clear to me. I’ve been screwed by a so-called man (Donald Drew – after 25 years my HUSBAND wanted to FIND himself so I get your story).

    Who am I to share my experiences? I’m just one lonely, screwed-up woman. I have no professional training so I am done playing in your sandbox. I was never trying to throw sand in any of your faces. So forgive me if I offended any of you.

    Just as not all men are asses, remember, there are some good women out there who aren’t asses either. I wish you all happiness and the strength to move forward with your lives. Meanwhile, your kids didn’t ask to be born so please try and have a relationship with them because my kids are hurting because their daddy decided to….leave us.

    May we all move forward (men and women) in a positive direction and may we look back at this someday and realize that this was just a very small part of our lives. Best of luck to all of you…I’m signing off for good….Laura

  273. Rmaxd says:

    @lauravdm2011

    “after 25 years my HUSBAND wanted to FIND himself so I get your story”

    It’s never that one sided …

  274. Suz says:

    “It’s never that one sided …”

    Ha ha! So true, Rmaxd, but you have to admit, from a newbie’s perspective, it sure seems one-sided – the man’s side! (Yes I know I’ve only been commenting here for a few weeks, but I’ve been reading occasionally for months.) It’s too bad she didn’t stick around long enough to notice that, individual personalities aside, the man’s side isn’t based on a myth.

  275. Bob says:

    @Laura – you shouldn’t just paste his name on the internet like that. He’s a jerk but you don’t go around pulling that kind of stuff. I never met a man on any site like this who has actually posted the real name of a woman who screwed him over. It’s just a line that should not be crossed.

    You sound much more agreeable in your last post, and I think you failed to see most of us agreed with most of what you said. You only went wrong criticizing human nature, traditional roles and the like just because of your negative experience. If you do read this, then I wish you nothing but the best luck with your life and kids, and hope that you would not blame all kinds of other things besides your ex-husband for what your ex-husband did.

  276. Rmaxd says:

    @Bob

    Laura didnt paste anyones real name …

  277. Rmaxd says:

    @Suz

    The point is, if she wants to understand why her husband left her, she needs to realise where she went wrong in the marriage …

    Unfortunately for her, this is not a hamster pit stop, no emotional cookies with whipped moxie strudels … no you go girl, get out there & slut it up for a real beta who’ll put up with your crap, bs …

    Which is obviously what she’ll eventually do … malls are full of beta slut hunters, using their kids as status objects, to lord over the other childless sluts …

    One slutty teen daughter to go, with extra mini skirt & thong, for that new teen slut smell …
    hold the shame & judgement & a side order of extra status whoring, just in case an uppity mom gives me dirty looks, at the breakfast section …

    Of course this is what happens when we replace men, with consumerism & usurp mens authority in society, women slut it up, with their teen sluts in tow as back up …. push up bra’s & tight ass jeans cocked & ready to fire at all nearby beta’s …

    Malls & clubs, used by sluts as weapons of mass Beta destruction …

    Malls & their status whoring drive by’s & teen mom crime scenes …

    Women like Laura rarely want to address the real issues, what they really want is an emotional cookie, a nawalt emotional cookie, an emotional cookie for their guilt & culpability in the relationship

    Instead of the nawalt cookie, they get the truth, they get real food, which after years of snacking on emotional cookies & years of fast food shit tests & fitness testing, they get truth based indigestion

    Beta’s are simply fast food joints for quick emotional fixes, instead of facing their real personality toxicity, & bitchiness, they turn to beta’s & their gf’s for quick emotional cookies & support ie gloss over my toxic defects & hideous personality, for a quick you go girl, shine coat & paint …

    A quick hamster pit stop, before they find some other beta to screw over

    How many toxic driven bitchy fries do you want with that beta togo … ?

    These women know its all a facade, but its when the shit hits the fan, when the divorce & all those empty years & std’s add up, they realise how they cant handle a real relationship, theyre simply broken people, toxicity & a std ridden carousel ride, always adds up

    That’s when the nawalt & hamster driven its the mans fault, comes out, you cant fix a life of toxicity & a std ridden carousel ridden past, with a beta, no matter how many years, it always comes up

    Either the wife walks away, in disgust for the man tolerating her std ridden past, for somebody who wont put up with her crap, hypergamy at its worst

    Or the man walks away, from her toxicity & a life of meaningless std ridden carousel past, her actions & bitchiness & shit testing, reminding him of all the bitches who’ve turned on him for being a man

  278. Suz says:

    @Rmaxd
    Absolutely agreed.

  279. Suz says:

    …she prefers the myth.

  280. Rmaxd says:

    The myth of her virginal, puritan past yes … puritanism & gaia goddess worship, given a new name & branded as feminism, goddess worship the insidious destroyer of main stream culture, entertainment & tv comedies …

    The myth of the new teen slut smell, always enticing to women of all ages, its never sexist, or ageist … the ultimate equal opportunist …

    Only in equal to the myth of the nawalt, I bet dalrock loves the smell of a newly minted nawalt reader on his blog … lol

  281. Bob says:

    @Rmaxd – Doh! >< thanks for the heads up, lol.

  282. Death of a thousand cunts says:

    Personal experience: Wife and I married in our mid-20’s. Both college grads, both professionals, upper middle income and life style. Two adult kids considered to be successful. Wife said for the first two years “…how could I be so lucky?” Fast forward to 35 years later: Kids gone and we are retired, We sleep in separate bedrooms, she has openly said she won’t participate in sexual activity. Her justification for remaining married the last 20 years “…it’s no better on the other side”. Seems a far distance from “…how could I be so lucky?” She cheated, I haven’t. Our daughter followed suit and her first marriage ended in divorce.

    Guess it’s my turn to say “…how could I be so lucky?”

  283. ybm says:

    @do1kc
    “She cheated, I haven’t. ”

    How do you look at yourself in the mirror? For Christ’s sake either dump her or start cheating. I know how comforting it is to fashion yourself an unbreakable armour of self-pity and hatred, but you are worth so much more than that.

    DUMP THE BITCH TODAY.

  284. Rmaxd says:

    @Suz

    lol Suz I got a bit carried away after your post on myth … dont eat nacho’s & post, leads to inane posts … lol

  285. Monique says:

    I’m not sure what to think of this website. I’m not done with men. But, I have had some pretty bad experiences with me. In spite of them, (the bad experiences) I do believe there are good men in the world. I’m just not very good at finding them.

    I think the thing that bothers me – and always has – is this notion that women are only here but to serve and support men. I’ve always suspected that most men were convinced of their superiority and felt that women were just another opportunity to conquer and occupy something. When I read some of the comments made, it definitely seems to be true, at least for the ones who are posting here.

    I’ve seen the bible referenced here a couple of times as justification for this attitude and as a Christian, that bothers me even more. I can see how people can justify these attitudes with the bible, but I also think they do not understand the scriptures if they believe that a woman’s role is ONLY to support and be subservient to men.

    And to the person who said that women are happier in that type of arrangement, they couldn’t be more wrong. Women are happy when they have their emotional needs met. When those needs are not met, they are generally not happy.

    Being dismissed and “kept in my place” is not my idea of happiness. Anytime an arrangement degrades and devalues another human being, there is something terribly wrong.

    I do not believe that caring for children or a home devalues or degrades women either. It is the lack of honor that men tend to give women in general that devalues and degrades them. When women sense it, (and we do) it sends a painful message that when it penetrates our heart, leaves wounds.

    Most men don’t seem to really care about those wounds. That is generally at the bottom of why women leave marriages.

  286. ybm says:

    Read the Manipulated Man by Esther Villar. Then come back.

  287. TFH says:

    Monique wrote :

    But, I have had some pretty bad experiences with me.

    Haha! Freudian slip!!

    do believe there are good men in the world. I’m just not very good at finding them.

    Correction : You are specifically attracted to men who have evil traits. A lot of women write love letters to serial killers. This should be your clue.

    Anytime an arrangement degrades and devalues another human being, there is something terribly wrong.

    Marriage today is already designed by law to degrade and devalue men. That churches still push this lopsided scam shows that churches have become sinful institutions.

    It is the lack of honor that men tend to give women in general that devalues and degrades them.

    Projection. For every man who mistreats women, there are 10,000 that over-pamper women. Misogyny is as rare as unicorns, misandry is as common as the air.

    That is generally at the bottom of why women leave marriages.

    Bullshit. Women leave only because it is financially profitable to do so. Your excuse is just a lame attempt to cover up female selfishness.

    Divorce rates are high ONLY in societies where laws ensure that women can maintain or increase their living standards after divorce. Societies where divorce would lead to a reduction in prosperity for a woman, have very low divorces for some mysterious reason.

    Monique, you have no idea how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think – quite the opposite in fact.

  288. Debra says:

    Interesting conversation. I am 59 years old, female, divorced three years after 25 years married. I am the one who chose to leave, youngest child was a freshman in college. Marriage was unfulfilling, stressful, full of conflict. Yet I grew as a person, and I still have fond feelings for me ex. We just couldn’t live together. Although I might like to have a relationship in the future, I am enjoying doing “me” right now. If I have to think about how I look, how much I weigh, what I wear, etc., to attract a man, well I guess I am finished with men! However, it is my hope that someone may come along who will be attracted to the person that I am. I am allowing my hair to gray, yet I take care of my body and mind because I want to continue to be healthy into my old age. I have two great children, many friends, great work. Life is good!

  289. deti says:

    @ do1kc:

    There is no way any man should put up for one nanosecond with a wife cheating. She cheats, she’s gone. I don’t care if you’ve been married 1 day or 35 years. Infidelity is the unforgivable sin of marriage. In my opinion it cannot be worked out, cannot be resolved, the damage is irreparable.

    I saw somewhere some Italian man in his 90s, married for more than 60 years, found out his wife cheated on him very earily in their marriage. He didn’t find out until he ran across the smoking gun letters that contained the evidence, some 60 years later.

    The man filed for divorce. She said she’d never cheated again, she just didn’t tell him. Even if that’s true, it compounds the problem because she not only cheated, she lied, covered it up, and played her husband for a chump.

    This elderly man is doing exactly what he should do.

  290. deti says:

    Debra:

    ” I am 59 years old, female, divorced three years after 25 years married. I am the one who chose to leave, youngest child was a freshman in college. Marriage was unfulfilling, stressful, full of conflict. Yet I grew as a person, and I still have fond feelings for me ex. We just couldn’t live together.”

    I am curious about this.

    1. Do you believe marriage is to be permanent? Do you believe it is to provide for the man as well as for the woman?

    2. Do you believe you will get married again? Have you been on any dates since your divorce? Have you had intimate relations with any men since your divorce? If you don’t want to answer these questions, that’s fine. Part of the reason I ask is because we know the following:

    — Many divorced women tend to believe their dating lives will be an endless party and parade of Sam Elliott/Sam Neill lookalikes waiting for them. The reality is NOTHING like this, however. Many divorced women don’t have great dating lives and never marry again. And for those who do remarry, the divorce rate is even higher than that for first marraiges.

    — divorced women tend to have fewer friends, less money, fewer social contacts, and more financial problems.

    — divorced women have more health problems than married women.

    2. You say your marriage was unfulfilling, stressful and full of conflict. That suggests basic incompatibility. Are you saying you could not figure out your incompatibility before 25 years, two children and a marriage elapsed?

    3. You say your marriage was unfulfilling, stressful and full of conflict. Yet almost in the same breath you say you “still have fond feelings for [your] ex.” If you liked him and you still like him, and made two kids with him, and used his money and labor, and lived with him, and could tough all that out for 25 years, why could you not stay married to him? Do you not know how to relieve stress or resolve conflict?

    4. The timing is quite curious. You left when your child was a freshman in college. Why did you wait until your youngest was out of the house? Why not before?

    5. “We just couldn’t live together.” Why not? You were apparently able to do it for 25 years (with two kids, using his money and his labor). What changed suddenly after 25 years when your youngest was out of the house and in college? How is it that you abruptly determined life had become unbearable after you were alone with him, and after using his money, his time and his labor to get your kids to adulthood?

  291. Elspeth says:

    These are all good questions you’re asking, deti. I think Debra should seriously contemplate the answer to these questions. It’s a major reason why I think couples do themselves a huge disservice when they allow their marriages to be come child-centered. One quibble, however. You asked:

    How is it that you abruptly determined life had become unbearable after you were alone with him, and after using his money, his time and his labor to get your kids to adulthood?

    Unless I missed something, they were his kids, too.

  292. deti says:

    Elspeth:

    Yes you’re right. Their kids. I guess I meant the plural “your”.

  293. deti says:

    Debra:

    “Marriage was unfulfilling, stressful, full of conflict. Yet I grew as a person”

    I always get suspicious when married women talk about their need to “grow” as a person, or seek personal “growth”. I also get suspicious when I hear divorced women talk about how marriage or divorce produced “growth” or some other sort of vague personal development. .

    Usually when a woman in a relationship with a man talks about needing to “grow”, she means one of the following:

    1. “I need new and exciting experiences that are just for me, not for us”
    2. “I’m bored with/not attracted to/not haaaaappy with my man/BF/husband and I want a new one”
    3. “I got married too early/too late/to the wrong man, I regret my choices, and I’m looking for a way out”

    Debra, how did you “grow” as a person in an environment you say was marked by lack of fulfillment, stress and constant conflict? What did that “growth” entail? Did you choose to involve your husband in your “growth”? Or did you purposely exclude him from your “growth”? Did you embrace personal “growth” at the expense of marital “growth”? Did you consider the effect your “growth” would have on your marriage?

  294. Monique says:

    @TFH……given my last post and the points that I put forth, I just wonder if the irony in this statement is visible to you?

    “Monique, you have no idea how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think – quite the opposite in fact.”

    Godspeed in your journey to marital and legal justice.

    Monique

  295. Suz says:

    He’s right Monique. Ever heard the phrase, “can’t see the forest for the trees?” You may know WHAT you think, but you have no idea HOW you think.

  296. LD says:

    Debra wouldn’t have made it to 59 had men not made the world safe for women to breed without risk of death/illness/incapacity. And what society even has use for an infertile female beyond occasional grandchild minding? Oh the delusions of the female mind, how much tax would we save if we removed the props of these selfish ideals?

  297. Rmaxd says:

    @Monique

    In your post all you essentially did was to blame men, read back your post & look at how many times you blame men

    Theres nothing ironic in TFH’s comment, his points are valid

    All you’ve done is point the finger at men, wheres your finger pointing at women, & your role in your husband walking away from you in dissatisfaction?

    TFH points out you dont know why women go wrong in a relationship, as he correctly points out, because you dont know where you went wrong in your relationship

    Women literally blame men, essentially if they dont know why their relationship or marriages dont work

    Women also blame men as a last resort, if they dont know how women work & function

    You’re blaming men, & you’re husband out of desperation & not knowing how you function as a woman

    A man doesnt walk away from a 25 year old relationship, unless the woman plays a large role in his walking away

    It takes two to reason, in a relationship

  298. deti says:

    Debra might get an eye opener from reading about how middle-aged divorcees really live.

    planktonlife.wordpress.com/

    A divorced woman living in Great Britain writes this blog. It’s called “The Plankton: Life at the Bottom of the Sexual Food Chain”.

    Plankton really wants a man, but can’t seem to find one to her liking. She routinely writes about what she claims to be an absolute lack of any good, decent, attractive men for her to date or have sex with.

    I’m posting this and holding up Plankton as an example because believe she illustrates the facts on the ground for a middle aged divorced woman in today’s Western SMP.

  299. Dalrock says:

    Deti, you are being unfair.

    Don’t worry ma’am. You will find your secret multimillionaire hunky handyman soon enough.

  300. Rmaxd says:

    @Monique

    Excellent comment by suz you might want to consider

    “Laura, I believe you weren’t trying to bash men. The problem is that like 99% of Western women, you have never learned NOT to bash men. From the “boys are so dumb” days of childhood, we have been taught to bash men, subtlely and blatantly. Every negative thought you’ve ever had about men, legitimate or not, has been reinforced by society. This is a safe world in which to despise men.”

  301. UK Fred says:

    Speaking with a married friend last night (22/1/12) he reckons his wife had had enough of sex when they were both about 40.

  302. Lee says:

    I think it all depends on the individual man, some men are women magnets till the end.

  303. Sean says:

    As a social worker, counselor, and child of the 60’s, I have concluded that today’s “stand-up guy” doesn’t stand a chance. If he completes his education, marries, has kids, and works 80 hours a week to provide an upper middle-class life style for his family, he is doomed. The wife eventually sees their existence as mediocre and lobbies him for a bigger house, posher neighborhood, and more accessories to her liking. So, he must find a second job or a higher paying, more stressful promotion. The wife soon to takes a separate bedroom, because he drinks too much and is always grumpy. Should something collapse within this house of cards, she will damn him for being an alcoholic, poor provider, and insensitive to her needs. Next stop is the divorce decree, which gives her the house, child custody, three cars, the boat, and beach house. He gets the house payments, boat insurance, car insurance, and alimony payments of $4500 a month. Oh yes, he is allowed to have the kids (now teens) stay at his small, ugly little apartment twice a month, but they are repulsed by the idea.Lastly, the ex replaces her former pawn with a much younger model (Fabio), having major tattoos, piercings at every orifice, and the bedside manner she never discovered with her former husband. Oh yes, Fabio hasn’t held a job for the last five years, as he’s ” holding out for a management position.” He’s supposed to be making child support payments for three kids he has with two other women, but has assured them he will meet the obligations once hired. Fabio is a man of his word…obviously!

    So mama, don’t let your babies grow up to be…stand up people.

  304. johnboy006 says:

    I dont see the relationship of uninterested women to men. Following my fathers dating career from his late 50’s to 80’s he has had no problem attracting women. I think this has a lot to do with the dwendling population of males especially after the age of 60. He has about 8 females to one man in his age group and now has a younger sugar mama who pays for everything to include travel around the world. For those men who live longer it only gets better.

  305. wendy says:

    Wow so much hatred between the sexes.
    I was looking for something off the internet to help explain my sudden lack of attraction for a man in my life anymore. I am 45 still menstruating with 3 children all doing well and I working full time.
    Since my last relationship ended I must confess that emotionally I feel whole and happy now & without hurting anyone (if that is possible on here) find watching how my exs manipulate the women in their lives both amusing from a distance and crummy.
    Part of me thinks I should feel sad and keep looking, but its like I see clearly now & know as long as my children are happy & safe in this world I have done my best & thus feel content.
    Maybe I will change my mind, but at the moment it does not bother me.

  306. Gerald says:

    Interesting comments but being Male, 52 yo and single. I find that with the cultural changes and women’s atitudes women just dont need men anymore. I dated constantly (women between 45 and 52) and am in a relationship now. Considering the age group of the women I dated you would think they have a “back in the day” mentallity regarding relationships and being in one would be what they desire. But what I have found and have been TOLD (by them) is that women dont need men, they want the companionship but really have no need for men! Even though most of the women I have gone out with were in financial nightmares due to poor paying jobs, etc and you would think they would love a good man that would complete them emotionally but also contribute to the financial needs (not that this is a valid reason to trap a man but I mention it as a relationship is supposed to complement and boost each other). But thats not the case! Women would rather loose a good, loving, giving, committed man in order to keep her independance and not have to compromise in the relationship and make the man feel wanted and appreciated. In fact, I realize that the atitude from women now is, “either you fit into my schedule and tend to my needs or move on!” My opinion

  307. Sean says:

    Have to agree, women seem to become apathetic toward their men, after 50 or so. Reminds me of my four fishing rods hanging up in the garage. Once a year round angler, I spent many hours on rivers, ocean, lakes, you name it. Each rod was for a different type of fishing or prey, and I prided myself on their quality and dependability. Now, they gather dust. Two joint replacements and open heart surgery have taken away the thrill of wading into a chilling stream or sitting in a cold boat for eight hours. For 30 years, fishing was my spiritual belief and the primary connector with my son. Soon the rods will be displayed at our annual spring garage sale…sad.

    I think my wife feels the same about me: once thrilling and amazing flexibility,my stout rod was always dependable. Now, occasional glances spell it out: she would rather have a colonoscopy than consider sensuous activity. Funny, she once felt the same way about accompanying me on any fishing treks. I am convinced nothing I could do would thrill her: not a 3 carat diamond ring, not a new car, not even a European vacation…only if I stayed home. In all honesty, she has managed to convince me she is no longer sexually attractive, after 35 years of marriage.

    Perhaps I’ll figure out a way to bring back the excitement of those old rods, after all.

  308. ybm says:

    Fish off of a new pier my friend. Oh what exotics you may catch!

  309. Gerald says:

    It’s a shame because I am old school looking for a life long relationship but I can’t seem to find it. Finding women is not an issue but finding one that’s wants to treat me and be with me (and I’m not talking sexually) like I want to be with them is the hard part. Don’t they say they want it but it’s seems as long as I integrate myself into thier life every thing is fine but ask them to show me the same and that is when the issues and disagreement start. Are Thier any women out there that want a two way relationship????

  310. Rmaxd says:

    Gerald the problem is your dating women too old for you

    Why are you dating 45-50 yr old women past their menopause?

    An older woman, while easy to hook up, is alot more critical if you dont have alpha characteristics, as they dont have the drive of a young hungry carousel riding slut …

    In short dont date older women, theyre off the shelf for good reason, theyre past their sell by date for men, especially older men

    Also you need to leverage your assets & father figure traits, for maximum hypergamy, youre ideal for younger chicks

    Stop chasing older chicks, they simply dont have the sex drive to appreciate a man, complete waste of time

    Let them hit the wall, they obviously dont need a man by now

  311. Rmaxd says:

    @Wendy what are you referring to as hate between the sexes? Any specific comments?

  312. Shellfish789 says:

    I think all you “Old Fauds” need to look at your self and see why older women don’t want you!

    You have to rely on Viagra…to have sex, you complain too much, you’re too bossy, you don’t keep your self up…, you have a pot belly and bald head and most of all you’re boring….

    Older women are looking good and dating younger men…they don’t WANT YOU!
    Older women have active sex lives…..Repeat they don’t want “old fauds” with polyester pants on!

  313. wendy says:

    Ha ha Rmaxd
    You tease and obviously love the contradictory nature of fueling the fires between male and female egos.
    I have two daughters and a son at University whom I love and respect equally.
    Calling women or men bad names is just silly and a reflection on your thought processes.

  314. ybm says:

    @Shellfish789
    Spin hamster spin!

  315. Tom Anderson says:

    Reading through this blog makes me realize that there is a central, universal truth to all of this.

    And the truth is, somewhere in the past 20-30 years, we forgot how to have relationships–any relationship, period. And that fact becomes clear in alot of these responses.

    While many of the responses really are truthful in their depiction of society now, many of them smack of…why would I want to spend any time with these people at all? Men AND women.

    As a guy born in the 60s, and one who from the start has perhaps a stronger-than-average ability to really observe things, I have noticed many things that have changed in society–for the worse. And these changes directly impact relationships.

    When I was young, no one used the F word. I never heard my dad say it growing up. Now people say it in public. Women didn’t dress overtly sexual, and then get annoyed when someone notices. Men didn’t call women “bitches”, and women didn’t have bachelorette parties with strippers.

    Women didn’t tell dirty jokes at work, and men didn’t sexually share their wives and put the video up on the internet. Women who worked didn’t complain about having to do housework, men chipped in to do the housework and didn’t think it was beneath them. Women didn’t have two kids before 23 and then go on a dating site and show off her tattoos. Men didn’t go to the same dating sites and show off their penises.

    When you went to the movies, Doris Day was funny and romantic. Now romantic comedies feature women with cum in their hair and women crapping in the street. Hilarious.

    We have become a crass, hurtful, using, self-centered, classless, raunchy society.

    And we wonder why it’s so hard to get respect from the others. How does one get respect when they show none? Heck, we don’t even know how to be good friends anymore. Who wants to be friends when we all act this way?

    I grew up I think at the sunset of great relationships. I had a childhood of family barbeques, neighborhood block parties, and my parents having people over for dinner parties and board games. When was the last time you heard anyone doing any of these things? Probably years. That’s right, because people have forgotten how to have relationships. We’re always “too busy”. Of course, we’re not too busy to all be on these blogs, are we? It’s always the other sex’s fault. While we men call women bitches, and the women go for the guys with money. Right.

    I am not saying the past was perfect, there was cheating, and jealousy and miserable marriages since the beginning. But we have lost something precious, and we did it buy choice. We did it on our own free will.

    Women wanted to be treated exactly like men. Men wanted women to be just as open and crass as men. We all wanted to get debauched together.

    Careful what you wish for, you might just have to live with it for the rest of your life.

  316. Rmaxd says:

    @Wendy

    Quick 1on1 sex ed just for you wendy …

    A mans penis & a womans vagina are not equal

    A mans penis is a one way street, while a vagina has multiple points of entry … rear entry a viable alternative to loss of elasticity

    Remember 2nd hand vaginas may cause drowsiness & boredom from lack of friction …

    Also vagina must be stamped with a use by date, or suffer sandpaper burns from shagging 50 yr old pensioner sluts …

    Give 50 yr old pensioners hip replacements not shags …

    I suggest you learn the highway code before you spout feminist drivel …

    For further lessons contact your local pimp, erm I mean bf … same difference right? Use foreign blunt object if pimp not available

    Usage of a beta male voids warranty …

  317. Gerald says:

    i whole heartily agree with your summation. Add to that today’s society of social networks, dating sites and a whole panorama of ways to avoid inter personal contact with others. We not longer talk to each other, we text, email, and cell call but the art of trying to get to know another individual face to face has been lost. we depend that the person putting a profile on the internet is being honest and that he truly realizes and knows WHO he is. Most of the time its our own personal opinion of ourselves not the true reality of what it is. When we do make a connection we realize that what that person told us about themselves and what they posted as a profile was their expectations and not honest depiction. I believe that now a days we all have unrealistic expectations and even when the expectations are reasonable we expect but don’t want to give the same. There are no relationships now a days! There are too many people who give themselves to others freely without seeing who the other person is. Divorce is too easy an option. The general consensus is try it, if it doesn’t work you can just bail and there will be someone else to try with. Then low and behold we find ourselves in our later years alone and depressed and probably wondering why we did not try harder with some of our relationships. Then there are those of us older individuals that try to believe and convince ourselves that we are emotionally satisfied with just having friends, family and acquaintances. People these relationships are great but emotionally satisfying? I say NO! Where is that one person who lies next to you at night, wakes up with you in the morning? That person who you can bear your heart and soul too. Who will be there by your site fighting through life’s struggles, who will give you their opinion taking into consideration your best interest, not theirs and who’s goals and dreams are to see the two of you prosper and to take from the life the best it has to offer together. Its a sad situation. Unfortunately people have become selfish, self centered and have their own agendas at hand. This society has gotten to a point where we do not care about each other. Yes there are those that do not fit this scenario but I am stating this as a whole as a society, All the technological advances are great and hopefully for the betterment of the people as a whole but at what cost. The loss of interpersonal relationships, compassion, and love and putting the other person before our own selfish interests? Google, Bing the internet and note the number of blogs, sites, and other areas dealing with loneliness, despair, and personal suffering just dealing with the efforts of trying to find a mutually satisfying relationship, Its a sad state of affairs and we should never ever let technology, selfishness, self centeredness take what deep down as loving human beings we really desire. Human contact and love! The Bible teaches to us to take the “I” out of the equation. When we do we allow for the love the exists to enter our lives.

  318. ybm says:

    Tom and Gerald:

    You both eloquently described the societal ashes we now find ourselves playing in, but recognizing a problem exists is only the first steps. I think it would help both of you to think about the causes of the social decay, and what can be done in response. Recognizing a problem exists only leads you to despair, it is recognizing the causes, and creating new behaviours in response to that, that growth will begin.

  319. Gerald says:

    ybm, thank you for your comment. your right and I think that I and Tom have singled out some of the issues that have lead to this decay. Unfortunately, as a society and as has been stated in the past with any issues regarding societal affairs recognizing the problems are the first step. But as a solution? The most we can hope for is for comments and blogs like this to get out to the mainstream. How can this help? Maybe by reading it will lead to change in the thoughts and actions of others. The problem I see is that unless you happen to trip over this site you will not see the comments. To work to reverse this well it can only occur on an individual to individual basis and realistically I dont see this happening. We are too overwhelmed with, If I take my personal interests out of the picture others will take advantage of me! I can only do, i believe what I can do. And that is to live by what I wrote. I try to love on people, I try to see things from the others point of view. Remember the old adage, you don’t know what the other person i going through until you walk in his shoes? I am proud to be a Christian and the Bible teaches bringing love, kindness, understanding and forgiveness to all. To approach others when you know you have wronged them. And even though this book has been around for ages its general message has not taken hold of society. When I first wrote on this site I stated the issues i was having with my relationship and other relationships I have had. And I am a giving and loving individual but in the end it was the other persons selfishness the ended the relationships. Yes i walked away taken advantage of, broken and hurt but when those normal feelings subsided I was left feeling that MY conscious was untouched because I gave everything I could and did my best without completely surrendering my soul and beliefs.

  320. reality is not pretty says:

    If a man in his 40’s or 50’s wants a woman in the same age bracket, something is definitely wrong with him. Most men with something going for them want younger women. Younger women are more appealing. An older woman? If a man is looking at the older women, chances are he does not have a job or has a minimal paying job or just cannot attract a better woman.

  321. absolutely right says:

    i am a straight man in my late fifties and had been married before. it is very hard now for me to meet a good woman today. i see the way they act and dress now, which does not say much. i have noticed that most of them now, even at my age are playing hard to get. i try to avoid going to the clubs, because meeting a good woman there is very hard. i am a serious, down to earth man that does not play games. i even go to the book stores, thinking that it would be much more easier meeting a woman today, but it is not. they are at least thirty years younger than me. i do meet the ones that are very nasty. i will try to start a conversation with the one that i would like to talk to, but they will walk away from me and tell me to leave them alone. this makes me feel bad. i just want to meet a good woman, and i wish that i was thirty years younger again. years ago, times were different and meeting women certainly was a lot easier than now. now there are many women today that are going for their own sex, and i feel that it makes it that much harder as well. so where can a man like me go to meet a good woman now?

  322. Rmaxd says:

    @absolutely right

    You need to learn game …

    Todays women have unlimited access to cads & players & alphas

    You now have to compete for women, who are literally banging cads & players 24 hours a day

    By picking up the traits of cads & players, you have a fighting chance

    Read up on Chateau Heartiste, on body language

    My guess is judging from your post, your too polite & not enough cad like in your body language

    The key to meeting women is assertiveness & confidence, women expect tons of masculinity & confidence, from men they dont know

    The basics for meeting chicks is eye contact first, then hold eye contact, if she responds well, then move in

    Also the major mistake your making is, youre not putting her down a few notches

    If you dont put down a woman, especially todays women, they will walkaway

    Display dominance & they will flock to you … its a different ball game with feminist women

  323. wendy says:

    CAN THERE BE SOME KIND OF FILTERING ON THIS SITE FOR OBVIOUSLY MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE SUCH AS RMAXD WRITING OBSCENE AND SICK COMMENTS.
    I AM SORRY THAT I MISS JUDGED YOU RMAXD AS JUST A WINED UP MERCHANT AS YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A VERY DISTURBED PERSON AND I WILL NO LONGER INDULGE WITH THIS SITE.

  324. Rmaxd, you’ve put her over the edge. A job well done!

    AND I WILL NO LONGER INDULGE WITH THIS SITE.

    Thank the Lord. Also, caps be bad, yo! Anyway, if there was going to be a filter of some kind on this blog, I would hope it would be the filtering of the constant whining and nagging from old hags such as yourself.

    Door’s that way, toodles.

  325. Donald Drew says:

    Looks like this blog has taken an ugly turn since I checked in last. The theme of this blog has left the building and turned in to a lot of personal assaults. I have read the post from where I Iast visited this site. The one that sticks out is “absolutely right”. Dude, grow some balls and get a plan. Have no idea what your background is or level of financial security you have, but with your poor me attitude, I can understand why you are branded with a big L (loser) on your forehead. Sounds like your ex-wife was a little tired of your whining and took a flyer. As you stumble around, you will eventually meet an old woman that will reel you in and with just a pat on your little head, she will easily dominate and abuse you. Just remember these numbers. 2nd Marriages have 64% failure rate, and 3rd marriages have an 82% failure rate. Does not matter if you are chasing younger women ( the preferred road ) or an older woman ( why ), to have success, you need to be financially set and physically fit. Women want action, not taking care of a couch muffin suffering from a lack of self confidence. Go by the old mantra, ” when does a 50 year old woman look her best; when you turn 70″. The game between the sexes is going full steam ahead. It is a personal and individual game and everyne has to approach the game…”with some game”. Look, the old fat useless women and men have given up. Just a handful of those over 55 really want to play. This group still works out and has their financial and physical ducks in a row. Those with the most to lose are not only cautious, but demand more (picky) substance from a relationship. The singles over 50 group is huge and growing by the hour….have some fun!! Putting a lot of expectations into a relationship or even a date, is ridiculous for us older players……again, have some fun!! It is OK to drop some coin on an older woman if she looks great and has preserved herself well. Give her a reward fo all of that gym time and plastics work….but keep that left eye open for a younger woman :) Both sexes would prefer younger, the question is, how much are you willing to pay..Do not let the younger crowd abuse you too much…but a good sip of water never hurts now and then.

  326. Rmaxd says:

    @Donald

    Preserve is the correct word, add some embalming fluid & your almost there …

    @Feminist Hater

    Wendys obviously unfamiliar with my posting history … I actually toned down my post … good deeds never go unpunished … my orignal post had something about cobwebs & bats flying out of post menopausal women …

    Dons cape … saves men from dating sexless 50 year old pensioners, when they should be dating 20 year olds …

    Seriously guys, 20 year old women love 40+ year old men, go bag yourself some hot chicks, instead of an aging egyptian mummy with a bus pass …

  327. Tom Anderson says:

    Donald, get off your high freaking horse. You start off your screed by commenting about how this blog has turned into personal assaults. You follow that immediately by calling the previous poster a loser. Isn’t that nice. Followed by remarks about “fat useless women”. I’ll bet a dollar to a dog turd that you have a gut, are bald and dress in Sansabelt polyesters, but never mind.

    Laughingly, you then you go on to say “It is OK to drop some coin on an older woman if she looks great and has preserved herself well.” Wow, look at you. I bet you have the women lined up to take advantage of a few of your precious coins tossed their way, kind of like barking seals.

    I’ll be clear. I can’t stand overt feminism and all the games out there. But YOU sir, are exactly the kind of DICK that women complain about. You’re exactly the kind of putz that has no idea what a relationship is about, and do nothing but burn out otherwise decent women out there. Here’s a newsflash. We don’t need more men like you, or your useless advice, we need quite a lot less.

    I was really hoping that your irony-filled blather was a Dennis Miller-level of satire, but no, you’re just pretty much an ass. Stay single my friend, and go have another drink.

  328. never wrong says says:

    to donald drew, or whoever the hell you are. do you know where you are today? wake up, women have changed today. they are really messed up today, unlike years ago when they had class and were a lot smarter. a good forty to fifty years ago, they had a good head on their shoulders, and did not play games like the ones that are out there now. their parents raised them a lot better, compare how they are raised now. it was so much easier meeting women back then. today, times have changed and sadly to say so have the women. i certainly agree what the other guy said. years ago, our parents and grandparents were very lucky to have met each other and stay married for so long. but not today. there are so many money hungry women out there that just take advantage of men that have money. it is a joke when i go to these clubs on the weekends, and see men that are thirty years older with the young women that they are with. they are just waiting for the guy to pass away, and get whatever money that was left in the will that he made for them to have. very sad.

  329. Donald Drew says:

    @Tom, gee you make me feel so small..NOT. Referring to “never wrong”, yep, dating 30 years ago was different. You thought about women that would make good mothers / parents. Now 40 years ago, you had to dodge the drug using hippies, but plently of well healed women could be found. But like you said, it is different now. Last time I checked, nothing really goes backwards. Men are living a lot longer and the desire to have a mate will probably follow you to the grave. I also get and understand your belief that women are “money hungry”, but so what. Wives can be that way to. Now a wife might be waiting for her old dude to pass away, but those old guys with young women do not work for the sanitation department. They both know what they are doing. I have faith that both old guys and young women know very well what they want and who they are. So really, you just can not compare the past with today, be it relationships or business. Remember when a hand shake was good enough to close the deal. Your road for finding a woman that can meet expectations from the past will be a long road. Just go with the flow and enjoy what comes your way. Women can’t get your money if you don’t open your wallet.

    Tom, I do have more interested women than I can deal with. However, I have been with a nice lady 10 years younger for about 3 years. We do not live together as that creates a whole new set of rules. Your words are really ridiculous as you do not know me and I do not know you. I do know that I have been very successful and traveled the world with my business until I retired. My wife and I divorced after 25 years and she left and gave me two daughters to raise. I raised then and educated them; they are doing great. We are very close and that is the reward for patience. Unfortunately, I am neither fat or bald. I am a health nut actually and financially…you would never understand. I am more like Johnny Carson than Denis Miller. I can draw a line for both of us. I assume no one really cares what someone writes on here so really, what is your point. I just looked out the window and the sun is still shining, so I guess we did not change a thing…….

  330. Gerald says:

    I at least personally disagree with your assumption. I choose to start my current relationship with a woman closer to my age because I was tired of dating women in their 40’s who were at that point trying to relieve Thier youth by hanging with girlfriends and clubbing. I am beyond that. And I work and have close to a 6 figure income. So I am not looking for a women in her 50’s to take care of me. I was looking for someone who was secure in her self and done with either trying to relive her youth or the youth some other man stole frok her or a women recently divorced trying to get another sucker to provide her with an income. Plus I found that women in their 40’s were still carrying the baggage from previous relationships plus still had young kids tied to thier skirts and were ready to bail if things got a little rough. So at least I don’t fit you idea of why a man in his 50’s would date a woman his same age

  331. Rmaxd says:

    @Gerald

    Erm, the only way to guarantee a woman, is to date women BEFORE they get baggage … in their 20s have NO baggage …

    All women in their 50s have baggage & over-head compartments & junk in the trunk … then theres the wrinkles … & cellulite & dodgy taste in zimmer frames …

    So hows post menopausal sex gerald? … lol

  332. Gerald says:

    Rmaxd, I hope you are just joking. If not you must be living in the Appalachin mountains with a bunch of inbreed toothless women. Women in my area, in the same age range as myself are beautiful and sexual and give a 20 yr old a run for their money. If there is a difference in sex drive as you suggest I really have not noticed. Maybe its because the women I have been with work out, take care of themselves and of course are LATIN, as I am also. The woman I am with is confident, sexual and has none of the hangups a 20 yr old has. Dont get me wrong I fully understand the attraction of a younger woman (maybe not in her 20’s making it a30 yr age difference). But I do see it. But unless you want to be viewed as a Perv, have someone with you soley for your money, and have to deal with them blowing out your car speakers because their music preference is Doggie Doo Doo or whatever the music? artists they listen to are, a younger woman also brings their own type of baggage. Not to mention a woman that age still wants to have kids and hoping their is not an OPPS in the picture you will be stuck either raising another child later in life or paying child support out of your social security check. Not an attractive scenerio, HUH. LOL! Not to mention having to overhear her tell her friends about how your nuts hang a foot off the floor! but she loves you cause you take care of her financially. Yeah what fun. Now lets say I was in it just for the sex, yeah a younger woman I guess would be satisfying, but for that I hire an escort and dont have to deal with the dinner, club, and personality and atitude of that younger woman, and its a look cheaper too. So stay with your 20 yr old, Hugh Hefner and I hope you dont blow a hip trying to keep up with your woman on the dance floor.

  333. Rmaxd says:

    lolSo 50 yr olds give 20 yr olds a run for their money?

    Here we all thought your criteria was lack of baggage?

    Look if all you want is a pensioner to grow old with, just say so, but to try & say they give 20 yr olds a run for their money, is laughable

    A used up vagina, is nothing like a freshly minted not quite yet pounded by the carousel, slut

    Also youre not banging chicks for their taste in music, or their trivia knowledge

    Social norms are meant to be broken, plus your confident 50 yr olds been more times round the carousel, then a check out coveyancy … I wonder what your friends have to say about your old age girlfriends, whore like past? …

    Just be aware of the options available to you & avoid selling yourself short

    You dont have to be hugh hefner, to enjoy a fresh slut, plus in todays feminist world, you dont have to pay for the women

    Youve paid your dues, youve made your money, now go get what you deserve, a hot piece of ass … youll pay out more in hip replacement & dentures for your old age granny, then a younger & hotter chick

    Plus theres that funky dettol smell, you have to wake upto each morning, all old ppl emit …

    I call it old people fumes …

  334. Gerald says:

    Haliarious! But please take the time to re-read my reply to you. If I was just purely interested in banging (as you state) I would agree with your suggestion of a younger chick (again as you label them) without any commitment or consideration, as apparently you have for them. But since I’m not 16 yrs old and immature My mind does work that way. I truly hope you are just joking and trying to add fuel to the fire! Lol

  335. Gerald says:

    PS: My posts have never been about trying to avoid baggage. If you think there is anyone out there with their own issues forget it. The title of this blog was are women done with men after age 55. That to me sounds like a relationship question not a banging one as you have turned the focus too. But thank God for free will and individual choices. I do thank you for a couple of chuckles from reading your post but really I do hope you have a little more substance to your thought process then what you have shown.

  336. kate says:

    Here’s to all the ladies who
    turned 55, and finally left the bastards!

  337. Rmaxd says:

    Theres nothing immature with having a relationship with a hot, young, tight, not quite yet perforated piece of ass

    What makes you think a 50 yr old zimmer frame, teeth deprived granny is more mature then a 20 yr old?

    Have you ever spoken to a woman? Their all about as mature as Britney Spears bodyfat & cellulite

    So not only are you dating a conveyor belt ridden, moth eaten, worn out vagina, but you also have all the immaturity & batshittery of a regular woman

    & then theres all the crap from post-menopause to deal with, why the hell would a man put himself through that sort of living hell ?

    A hot chick has none of the post-menopausal problems, plus she has no medical problems, you obviously have to fork out for, as most women hate hate paying for anything, except their gina tingles … if youre lucky …

    Also a hot young chick, hasnt quite yet turned into a raging constantly pmsd entitled hag

    Do you seriously want to baby sit a woman, as she slowly looses her looks & her teeth & her saggy boobs?

    Do you really want to install an oxygen tent & call a heli-vac, everytime she eats a cupcake?

    Seriously a decayed ass requires more upkeep, in construction work & labour then a hot chick, with a fetish for older gents …

    Is there no end to your depravity, Gerald? You perv, leave those grannies alone, & go grope some fresh hot chick who appreciates a depraved wealthier & well travelled gent, instead of having to shop for denture cream & hip replacement poly fila …

    Having to construct scaffolding just to prop up her hip replacement, before you even have sex, is bad for your erection …

    Also theres the slipped disc & cracked hernia everytime she gives head, do you really want to wait 30 minutes in E.R, before getting head?

    The construct costs & upkeep in hip replacement poly fila, bankrupts most wealthier old gentleman

    Forewarned gents, stick to younger hotter tighter chicks, & enjoy the fruits of your labour, a post menopausal woman in a decrepit state only deprives you of what you need … hot chicks with daddy issues …

    Ever wondered what a completely satisfied chick, who never shit tests, or acts batshit looks like? Date a chick twenty years younger then you & find out …

    Wealthier gents, the only solution to a womans hypergamy, you deserve it …

  338. Rmaxd says:

    @Katie

    You go girl … now go feed your cats …

  339. Judy says:

    I am a 65 year old woman who has taken very good care of myself, I am as sensual as I have ever been. I love my husband and I have also been having lengthy conversations with my first love from many years ago. I still get flirted with when out in public, it doesn’t end ladies unless you let it. I think most women after 55 lose confidence in their selves and are just too afraid of rejection to venture out or to continue to be sexy. What I do know is; men aren’t half as picky as women think they are.

  340. ybm says:

    Ma’am who are you trying to convince? Us? or yourself?

  341. I can second Judy’s message. I am in her age group and can concur that slender, well-preserved women are treasured by men their own age and older. I can also tell you that they are the minority, maybe 10-15% of the women that age. The other 85-90% are not worth the time or effort, and a day fishing is a day better spent in the minds of most men than a day spent in their company.

  342. In other words, the sexual landscape for women after 55 resembles that for men before 25. No wonder it looks so awful to them.

  343. ybm says:

    Treasured sure. But not treasured to the extend that even an average 18 year old is treasured. Time destroys women above all other things, the unavoidable, grim, march to irrelevance is something even the 10-15% of women must endure. Men older or the same age might prefer them purely from a peer-preference standpoint. But only the most naive of fools doesn’t believe a woman’s greatest treasure, and most fleeting one, is her looks. Unfortunately for women, men do not have this problem. A man’s die is recast over and over again over the course of his life by events. A woman’s die is cast the moment she is conceived.

  344. I guess you’ll have to wait to see what I’m talking about. L’il Johnny doesn’t clamor as hard as he used to, and after you’ve passed on your genes other things become important.

    Charm is a great equalizer for older women. Unfortunately, older American and British women are often abrasive and mannish compared to European, Asian and South American women in the same age group. I have had the pants charmed off me by older foreign women.

    But you are right about one thing – looks may not be everything but they are well ahead of whatever is in 2nd place. Women like to claim that men don’t age well either, but the raw truth is that the sexual landscape for both sexes is the mirror image of what it was in the late teens. All but the most hopeless men get more attention than they can handle, whereas all but the top 10-15% of women are effectively invisible.

  345. Rmaxd says:

    @Judy

    How can you say

    “I am as sensual as I have ever been”, coming from a 50+ yr old makes me want to gag …

    & then say

    “What I do know is; men aren’t half as picky as women think they are.”

    So what is it, are you sensual at the age of 55+, or are “men aren’t half as picky as women think they are”

    Youre not exactly sensual if the guys you date arent really choosy when it comes to zimmer frame bling …

  346. Rmaxd says:

    @Judy

    Only a woman would ever state “I am as sensual as I have ever been”, coming from a 50+ yr old makes me want to go eww …

    & then in the same sentence say ..

    “What I do know is; men aren’t half as picky as women think they are.”.

    Hardly a classy lady there … lol

  347. TFH says:

    Judy, you are 65.

    The truth is, female beauty starts to decline at about half your present age.

    Then again, some of these trolls are just too formulaic. I say this is a put on (like so many other supposed women in the 50-80 age range who come here to say they are still hot).

  348. Leah Whip says:

    I’m sick of this, I am a 57, 5 ft 7 130 lb body, i swim 1 mile a rayband jog 5 miles a day. I love lingerie and sex and absolutely adore and love my husband of 23 years who has any type of sex he wants or needs and we have amazing sex. and he adores my body. Get over it. If men are just into 20 or 30 year s old its because they have no character and what woman of intellect with sexual would be interested in a ditz who wants a younger chick cant get beyond that. Young women only want older men for your position and money and what you can do for them. It goes both ways, But of course if that is what you seek then you are a shallow creep that no one is interested in, including us old gals with hot bodies who love to fuck a real man.
    TFH you startedvyour decline when you openec your mouth. Who are you? Brad Pitt, then I apologize jerk.

  349. Leah Whip says:

    and i can post an ass that you cant have loser

  350. Suz says:

    “whereas all but the top 10-15% of women are effectively invisible.”

    Hah! I turned invisible the day my son was born! (He left 30 pounds behind) Before that I figured men thought my eyes were at chest level; turns out though, being spoken TO, with eye contact, by only a few men, was way better than being ogled by many men. Being young and hot was fun, and it opened a lot of doors to me, but I found I didn’t want to go through most of those doors – there wasn’t much on the other side.

  351. Mule Chewing Briars (AsinusSpinasMasticans) says:

    The desirability of doors opening for you when you are young and hot, or old and [relatively] hot depends on the comfort and appointment of the room you are already in.

    If you are already in a warm room with a good fire glowing, a bottle of Madeira, a slice of chocolate cake and a good book, you may want to close the door yourself to keep out the draft.

    It may be a different story if you are banging away on the doorstep in a thunderstorm it might be a different story.

  352. Rmaxd says:

    “I am a 65 year old woman who has taken very good care of myself, I am as sensual as I have ever been. I love my husband

    “and I have also been having lengthy conversations with my first love from many years ago.”

    Wth … This is pure troll … a 65 year olds first love probably died out in the jurassic era along with his spear throwing, & loin cloth fetish …

    @Suz

    I find dividing my attention between a womans chest & her ass makes for a more stimulating & intellectually rewarding conversation

    Of course depending on how stimulating her ass is …

    I have a pet theory, the more stimulating a womans ass & chest, the more stimulating her posts …
    Im sure theres an i.q correlation in there somewhere … must test for ass hotness & prose, next time hot chick strikes conversation …

    Whos up for forming a Mensa group based on T&A i.q …

  353. deti says:

    @ Judy:

    “I am a 65 year old woman who has taken very good care of myself, I am as sensual as I have ever been. I love my husband and I have also been having lengthy conversations with my first love from many years ago.”

    (Translation from hamsterese: My body is not what it used to be but I’m still ready to go! I’m a total knockout at 65! Too bad my boring beta husband is worn out from decades of working his fat ass off to get me my Lexus and my second home in Boca. Well, I guess I like him OK. But because I’m so bored, I’m having an emotional affair with an alpha from my young, single days who had sex with me a few times before I got kicked off the carousel and had to settle for a boring beta provider. My long lost alpha is the only one I truly love. He’s the beautiful , misunderstood bad boy whom I could never have for my very own. But I’m about to make up for all that. I’m going for one last ride on the carousel. Might have to settle for the benches, though, what with my lumbago and all. )

    “I still get flirted with when out in public, it doesn’t end ladies unless you let it. I think most women after 55 lose confidence in their selves and are just too afraid of rejection to venture out or to continue to be sexy. What I do know is; men aren’t half as picky as women think they are.”

    (Consulting hamsterese -to-English dictionary: I’m living it up and on the prowl, and my stupid flaccid beta husband is none the wiser. He has no idea I’m heading out to the carousel and he won’t find out, either. And if he ever does he won’t say shit about it. If he tries to say anything to me about seeing other men, I’ll just leave, divorce his fat ass, take the second home, and live out the rest of my days on half his pension and his 401(k). I’m not afraid of rejection. All you gotta do is show these old Viagra-popping alpha wannabes some saggy breast and they’ll pitch tent right there in their Depends. Believe me, I know.)

    [D: Well done!]

  354. deti says:

    @ Judy: Is The Villages truly America’s friendliest hometown?

  355. deti says:

    MuleChewing, ybm:

    It’s true that a woman over 55 who is slender, well preserved and has taken care of herself still has a little attractiveness. Certainly such a woman is noticeable, because her appearance puts her head and shoulders above her age peers. But these women are not nearly as physically attractive as they think they are, nor are they as attractive as they were when they were in their late teens and early 20s. There’s a number of celebrity women in their 40s through 60s who look smashing for their age. There are also weight loss success stories — the 50 year old Bowflex Grandmother! The former fattie who lost 60 pounds, now has a ripped midsection and bangs the poolboy! Many women see this and think they can do it too. But the average 50 year old woman has 30 pounds to lose and doesn’t have time to work out two to three hours a day with a personal trainer (preferably a male one so she can bang him if she wants to). She can’t afford or doesn’t want botox injections, liposuction, tummy tucks, implants in her breasts, buttocks, and cheeks, and facelifts. She can’t afford salon hairstyles and cuts at $500 a pop. She cannot afford to eat organic nor has she the time to prepare healthy meals.

    So the average woman is looking at an ideal presented by celebrities whose occupation it is to look good. These celebrity women’s faces, bodies and voices are their very livelihoods. Most women cannot attain the appearance of a Lena Horne or a Meryl Streep or a Sandra Bullock or a Helen Mirren. it is simply not possible. Yet we are treated to the literary spectacle of people coming onto this thread and talking about, with absolutely no sense of irony, “79 year old total knockouts” and other such nonsense. (I’m still LOLing about that 79-year-old knockout.)

  356. Mule Chewing Briars (AsinusSpinasMasticans) says:

    Deti and other firebreathers –

    Please remember that I am entering my 7th decade as I type. I do find about 10%-15% of women my age attractive. This is both a good thing, and a bad thing.

    But the point I wanted to make was not that older women can be attractive to older men, but that the percentage of older women, especially older single women, who are attractive to older men, especially scarce single older men, is smaller than the percentage of single women in their 20s and 30s who are attractive to men on their age group. When I was single and 28, I found between 80% and 90% of women in my age group attractive. Now, remember. These women are still my age-mates today, but God! the years have been brutal on most of them.

    Indeed, one of the most greatest affronts about growing old is watching what the blazing sun of passing time does to the snows of yesteryear. It iworks the same way with men, I think, but women have always found very few of us beautiful to begin with. The ones they thought were beautiful in the 1970s are still doddering around today, albeit with much younger women. As far as disillusioning a woman about her attractiveness late in life, I think you’d have better luck standing on a hill and commanding the sun not to rise.

    Let them be. Like Dalrock and others have said before. They’re through with men their own age. They’re passionately through with men their age. In fact, they are so through with men their age, they have to come on this Jurassic thread to tell us just how through they are with men their age.

    The unfortunate side effect the feminist decades is that there are so very, very few charming older women left. A woman can be charming even when the last scrap of physical beauty has flown. Think of Dame Maggie Smith’s portrayal of Countess Violet Crawley in Downton Abbey. I found myself fast forwarding through the tepid love affairs of the two insipid younger daughters to Dame Maggie’s scenes.

    Why the phuque can’t women my age aspire to be more like her, and less like the dipshit female rabble at my gym who flirt with me in front of my wife and wear stoopid t-shirts that say “40 is the new 20″. Yeah, right. Wake me up when unemployed is the new six figures.

    CS Lewis was right. Women exert every effort to get to the stupidest phase of their life as quickly as they can, and once they arrive, to stay there as long as possible.

  357. deti says:

    @ Leah Whip:

    “I’m sick of this, I am a 57, 5 ft 7 130 lb body, i swim 1 mile a rayband jog 5 miles a day. I love lingerie and sex and absolutely adore and love my husband of 23 years who has any type of sex he wants or needs and we have amazing sex. and he adores my body. Get over it.”

    Where’s my hamsterese to English universal translator? Oh, there it is. OK:

    Translation: 57 is the new 22! I was born hot, I was hot, I am still hot, and I’ll always be hot. I’m that vaguely disturbing out of date cougar holding down a bar stool and checking out the college guys when my hubby’s not looking. I can still scrog like I could when I rode all those pretty horsies on the carousel back in the day. I am in total control of our sex life. My husband gets whatever sex he wants or needs and we have great sex, but only when I feel like it, and only how I want to.

    My husband loves how hot I am (when he’s not staying up late. Says he has to stay up late to pay bills and read his books. How come the computer’s virus detector is going nuts all the time? And why is there always a tissue box sitting right by this computer? Honey, get this fixed. I need to check how many of my old college boyfriends liked that Facebook picture of me doing that Duckface pose with Helen and Julie and Trish that was taken at the bar a few weeks ago. Nah, you weren’t there. Nah, you haven’t seen it. And you won’t, either )

    “If men are just into 20 or 30 year s old its because they have no character and what woman of intellect with sexual would be interested in a ditz who wants a younger chick cant get beyond that.”

    Hamsterlation: Look at me! LOOK AT ME!! I’m still hot! And if you can’t see that, then you’re dumb, and stupid, and a creep, and a loser, and… and… all those other names.

    “Young women only want older men for your position and money and what you can do for them. It goes both ways, But of course if that is what you seek then you are a shallow creep that no one is interested in, including us old gals with hot bodies who love to fuck a real man.”

    Hamsterlation: Actually, all women only want older men for money and (social) position. We want the younger men for other kinds of positions, wink wink, nudge nudge. You are just a bunch of dirty old men who can’t get laid! You’re all creeps and losers! You need to act your age! And even if you did, you wouldn’t be gettin’ none o’ this (licks thumb, applies it to backside and makes sizzling SSSSSSSSS noise) !! ‘Cause I am hot, hot, HOT!! And by “real man”, I mean one who isn’t broken down and tired from supporting me all these years when my kids and I really needed him.

    “TFH you startedvyour decline when you openec your mouth. Who are you? Brad Pitt, then I apologize jerk.”

    Hamsterlation: Dammit, I hate it when men come on here and can tell the truth about me without even knowing me! That’s not fair! Unless you look like Brad Pitt, in which case, here’s my number, biatch.

  358. Suz says:

    “Mule Chewing Briars: …if you are banging away on the doorstep in a thunderstorm it might be a different story.”

    So very very true. Shout-it-from-the-rooftops true. Fortunately for me I started out as an ugly duckling, so I was more bewildered than spoiled by all of my options. I’m grateful I had the luxury of waiting until I was smart enough to make a good choice.

  359. Suz says:

    @Leah Whip:

    You can read these comments and screech NAWALT all you like, and in many cases, you’d be technically correct. You might have noticed the bias here is distinctly male, but if you think it’s unreasonable then you are absolutely oblivious to the female bias in which you are steeped. Deti knows you better than you know yourself. It’s too bad you already have all the answers because if you didn’t, you could learn something here.

    Let me assure you that NAWALT isn’t very convincing when accompanied by a “You men are pigs!” attitude.

  360. Rmaxd says:

    @Leah Whip

    “TFH you startedvyour decline when you openec your mouth. Who are you? Brad Pitt, then I apologize jerk.”

    Leah Whip has a 67 year old hip replacement, denture popping granny like crush on TFH …

    TFH I suggest running but you wont get far, she swims a mile a day …

  361. deti says:

    Mule:

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone wax so eloquent and poetic on a woman’s trip toward The Wall.

  362. TFH says:

    What is with these 57-67 year old grimalkins coming over here and demanding that they are hot?

    What happened to the idea of becoming matronly and dignified by age 65?

    I would call them grannies, but they chose to abort their babies 40 years ago, and thus have no grandchildren today….

    Then again, these women are SO exact in conforming to the most established cliches that they all might be elaborate pranks…

  363. deti says:

    @Sean:

    “I think my wife feels the same about me: once thrilling and amazing flexibility,my stout rod was always dependable. Now, occasional glances spell it out: she would rather have a colonoscopy than consider sensuous activity. Funny, she once felt the same way about accompanying me on any fishing treks. I am convinced nothing I could do would thrill her: not a 3 carat diamond ring, not a new car, not even a European vacation…only if I stayed home. In all honesty, she has managed to convince me she is no longer sexually attractive, after 35 years of marriage.

    “Perhaps I’ll figure out a way to bring back the excitement of those old rods, after all.”

    SEan, that is too bad that you think your wife feels that way about you, and about herself. Sounds like she doesn’t want sex because she thinks she is not attractive. That is not to say that you have caused this. Sometimes women get this way.

    One of two approaches might work: take her to your bedroom and ravish her. Don’t ask. Don’t negotiate. Just do her. If she stops you, wait a couple of days. Then talk to her about it. More drastic measures might be needed.

  364. Rmaxd says:

    Deti dispensing with the gaming advice … I thought game was pandering to the woman …

    Anyway Sean, or anyone reading, the reason shes gone off sex, apart from her hormones, is basically you need to be alot more hyper-masculine

    As a woman gets older, & her hormones begin to deplete with age, & she no longer feels naturally attracted or turned on to your regular male behaviour

    This state of hormonal depletion, requres the male to be alot more masculine & sexual then he would have when he was younger, with his wife …

  365. TFH says:

    Deti’s responses to the hags were excellent.

    Am I the only one who has noticed that Deti has become a far fiercer combatant against misandry than a couple of months ago? A positive change, for sure.

  366. Rmaxd says:

    I guess all those posts of me calling deti a mangina paid off … lol

    To deti’s credit of course …

  367. decaf says:

    My husband hasn’t had sex with me since our wedding night. He just refuses, and he is not interested in anyone else. He has no friends and goes no where, no phone or computer. He’s slept down stairs for over 40 years. Just like a hermit. I think I look good for an older women, but he says we are friends only and there isn’t any love in his life. He hates sex and I think me also. He always told me I was terrible at sex and love making. And he didn’t care what I did with our marriage or who and where I went. I should have left him but I was stupid, I was young and didn’t know better.
    I’ve been depressed, hurt, unwanted for so manny years. I have become very distrusting of men.
    I only really stay in the same house with him is because of his pension and benefits. Its a horrible way to live and I will die this way.

  368. Rmaxd says:

    @Decaf

    “I only really stay in the same house with him is because of his pension and benefits. Its a horrible way to live and I will die this way.”

    So horrible yet you still take his pension & benefits … the horror …

  369. Gerald says:

    Decaf, what was his reasoning for marrying then if what you say is true. This world and people’s atitudes are messed up. Here you have a woman who wants something from her husband and he refuses to give anything. Yet she sticks it out to the end. Then you have women who have a good man willing to give everything and they bail at the first hint of trouble or things not going there way. I myself am in a relationship that is only 9 months old and she finds reasons to keep herself busy and shows no sign of wanting to be together. Of course she talks about marriage but why would I commit to her if now she doesn’t even seem to even want to spend time with me? Example I stepped back for a week to thinks things thru and she didn’t even notice that was what I was doing until I told her. Women! Decide what you want

  370. Rmaxd says:

    @Gerald

    So trouble in paradise gerald? Here we thought she was a sexy, gives 20 year old run for their money, grandmother, gone wild …

    “Example I stepped back for a week to thinks things thru and she didn’t even notice that was what I was doing until I told her”

    Take the brakes off her zimmer frame & roll her down a hill for old times sake … should do the trick …

    I also recommend a spare oxygen tank, a defibrilator & a copy of readers digest to set the mood … just dont light the candles too near that oxygen tank …

    Btw Gerald since I hate not seeing you guys live the pensioners gone wild, lifestyle, I suggest you go over to Athol Kays site, & see why your hot ass grandmother is playing hard to get …

  371. delilah says:

    We’re not done with men.We’re done with bullshit. My libido is stronger than it was at 40 (I’m 61). Currently jonesing for a man who is probably ten years younger.

  372. Tracey says:

    Wow…. I’m a 27 year old female and reading this blog just made me sad. There’s so much hate. Is this what I have to look forward to when I get older? I like and respect men. I’d like to spend my life with men my own age with the same life experiences. When I’m in my 50s, I’d like to think there will be men in their 50s who will also like me. I’m not really sure why so many older men here are all about “banging younger, hotter girls”, meanwhile spewing hate and disrespect for their female counterparts. I’ve never been interested in significantly older guys and I don’t know of any women in my age cohort that are. If you older men are holding out to be exclusively with younger women, I think you are wasting precious time. And no one should be criticizing older women for being unattractive physically. I’ve been hit on by my fair share of unattractive older men and I’m not in denial that one day my own looks will fade. Everyone’s looks fade with time – so stop being so critical!

    You don’t know ALL women over 55. I’m sure there are women who are fit, fun, and interested in sex. And I’m sure there are women who really want to have functional relationships with you. Please don’t be so angry and bitter. There are wonderful women out there that want you for you and who will love you unconditionally. :) Take pride in yourself as you grow older, you are a better person for it. And you deserve to be with someone who appreciates that. Good luck to you all and pls don’t lose hope!

  373. Suz says:

    “We’re done with bullshit.”

    Ever so close. “We” may be “done” with men’s bullshit, but we are so. not. done. with our own. Try to look back honestly – maybe you’re capable, maybe not. Aside from criminals and youngsters, 99% of male bullshit is nothing more than ordinary masculinity trying to gain a toehold in a hostile environment.

  374. Gerald says:

    @Tracey. Wow at last words of reason and logic. I don’t know why Rmax is so bitter and has the attitudes he has maybe it’s from his own life experiences? At him, the issues I may be having having are no indication of her physical attributes. She is a beautiful woman and my own personal opinion is that before I came along she was not in a relationship for a while by her own choice and may be having to adjust to being in one and trying maintain the life and activities she had before I came along. I am not excusing her. I am not bitter but I will agree with remax that it seems that older women have formed thier own lives and find the fact of having to compromise cause now someone wants to be in her life.

  375. Suz says:

    “I’m not really sure why so many older men here…”
    Tracey, you don’t understand because most of the men you know are still trying to reshape their masculinity into something feminist society doesn’t want to scrape off the bottom of its shoe. They haven’t yet figured out it’s a losing proposition, and many of them are fairly content with it because they haven’t been actively victimized by it, only passively; they can live with the compromise. The negativity and bitterness here disturbs me as well, but I don’t blame it on the men who are negative and bitter. Forums like this one attract men who have been screwed six ways from Sunday, and are sick of being victims. There is really no place else for them to express themselves; the truth about their betrayal is something the rest of us don’t want to hear. Women (ESPECIALLY moral women) don’t want to believe what we’ve done to them and men don’t want to believe they are that vulnerable. There is a very good reason why the manosphere can be such an ugly place – it reflects reality.

  376. Rmaxd says:

    @Gerald

    The truth isnt negative or bitter, its called the truth for a reason …

    Thnx for implying not wanting to bag a pensioner in her prime, makes me negative or bitter … Your 1000 virginal grannies await for you in heaven … complete with a bake sale & kinky crochet …

    Gerald, seriously go to Athol Kays site & educate yourself on why the pensions of your dreams, is giving you the cold shoulder …

    Her depleted hormones play a part, but its more to do with you not treating her like the jerks & assholes of your youth, 70 years ago in her twilight years … somewhere in the jurassic era …

    Hate to break it to you Gerald, but women dont really mature in their old age, when it comes to sex, they still expect you to act like a jerk asshole alpha cassanova …

    They just get more desperate, or senile … which ever comes first …

  377. Gerald says:

    R, You may be right I’m not going to stand here and state that I know it all and I can only speak from my experiences. But I did date a 22 year old when I was in my 40’s and the majority where in the 40 to 45 yr age range. Who know maybe the art if a relationship is just gone and it’s better just to go around banging each other without commitment. How do I get to the other site?

  378. LindaJo says:

    I think women are still interested in men even as they age. Companionship, sharing, etc. Most men today do want a wife who will “take care of them and their children” but also someone who can make good money.. They want it all and they also want her to be 25 when they are 40 no matter their income or attractivenesss.
    .

  379. Rmaxd says:

    Thnx for the links Suz

    @Gerald

    Women dont want relationships, not western women anyway, they want thrills & spills & jerks …

    Seriously, Gerald if she did pop the marriage question selfishly, youre already most of the way there …

    All you have to do is objectify her, slap her ass, grope her & basically be very very lewd … in a classy way of course

    You need to dominate her alot more aggressively then you are atm, as your behaviour is clearly not pushing her buttons

    You need to challenge her intellectually, by proving how smart you are, ie push her need for beta behaviours

    & balance it by being cocky & funny, as well as rough housing her & more ass smacking

    Cuddling yes, ass smacking & objectifying & dominating her verbally & physically even more

    Calibrate your aggressiveness & dominance till she responds & then take it up a few notches

    Remember its not about a relationship, your already in one, you just need to work the work finer points

    There are two killer secret weapons you can employ on a none-responsive chick …

    Hard sex, bang her alot harder & deeper then you normally would, hell even more then shes ever experienced, & she will turn all clingy & begging for more on a daily basis ..

    The other is not to orgasm, or ejaculate, this is a killer move & guaranteed to get her paying more attention to you

    Do this from time to time & tell her youre didnt feel like orgasming, or ejaculating …

    You might find these links handy if your starting out …

    You have to respond to her like this …

    http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/01/answering-do-these-pants-make-my-ass.html

    & do this ..

    http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/12/if-you-want-personal-fuck-toy-you-have.html

    Also remember women like it alot rougher then you think … so be as dominant & aggressive as you want, just push her buttons & keep her moist …

    A quote from his site …

    “The sex life we had together was generally fairly vanilla, but now and then a dash of the spicy stuff made it very, very hot. I discovered that it turns out I like it a lot rougher than I had previously thought. He would occasionally play “masked bad guy” and leap out and “rape” me (all planned out ahead of time).

    He would never bruise me or draw blood — it was just the fact of being overwhelmed by his physical strength that was so arousing. One of the most erotic things that he would do was choke me unconscious during sex. Wow, I really do miss that.”

  380. Gerald says:

    @rmaxed. I appreciate your advice and who knows it may be the solution. If you don’t mind me asking how do you arrive at your conclusions? Are you a therapist, is it experience? Thinking over your advice logically I have thought that you may have some merit in what your suggesting since I have put myself as they say a compromised position with her since I openly have expressed my desire to spend more time with her, maybe giving her the impression that she has the upper hand? Your thoughts

  381. Lily says:

    @Rmaxd
    I was a bit baffled that you said that was a ‘quote’ from Athol’s website as I know he’s not a fan of choking, partly for medical reasons, being a medical professional himself.

    So I googled it and saw it was just a random comment from a random commenter on Athol’s website. Funny you missed out the beginning of the comment, which was the woman’s partner had been a professional dom..and most of his clients had been men.

  382. Rmaxd says:

    @Lily

    I post pretty fast, without editing, so yea i shouldve added it was a comment

    What you also missed out, is that the woman was an ordinary regular woman

    All women love extreme domination, ie walshs comments on a guy spitting wine into her mouth, still gives her gina tingles to this day …

    My point for that quote, is to drive home the need to be hyper-aggressive & hyper-masculine

    Most men dont realise you have to hyper-aggressive with a woman in order to be memorable, we live in the age of hyper-feminism, where women are extremely feminine

    We also live in an extreme society with massive amounts of sensory overload, so we require far greater amounts of stimulus in our sex lives, & relationships

    Men are simply unprepared for the amount of aggression & dominance they are supposed to be, in a world where the woman are hyper-feminised & theyre senses overloaded from television & emotional porn

    Women respond to extreme hyper-masculinity & dominance & asshole behaviour, as theyre not able to respond to normal behaviour

    The women in our society are deviant, they are abnormal & theyre behaviour deformed

    They are not normal ppl

    Women are extremely damaged ppl biologically speaking

    Which in turn requires highly aggressive & dominant behaviour to communicate with them …

  383. In my experience, a little alpha goes a long way. Women do need some rough handling occasionally, so they understand that you are not a eunuch. But a wise man knows his own strength. Once you have produced some “shock and awe”, you can be a bit gentler.

    In earlier, less feminist times, women used to be in awe of the average man. But with girls being told, foolishly, that they are just as physically and mentally strong as men, they are less easily impressed. A woman’s first taste of alpha must come as a revelation.

    We, men and women, are hugely lied to by society and the media. I don’t say that caveman behaviour is the solution – it has obvious risks – but if a woman knows you are at least capable of being tough with her, it will build lasting respect. Men want to be nice to their women, but they have to establish firm ground rules first.

  384. Gerald, women hate needy men. Men who are needy from the start.

    The game never stops. I am 56. My wife is 51. She still reacts like a woman.

  385. Gerald says:

    @Collard, I would not describe myself needy and it definitely wasn’t from the beginning. My desire to spend more time with her was expressed way into the relationship. My question was in wonder if expressing if not just making it so made her think she had the upper hand

  386. Gerald, a very important principle is to make yourself the scarce commodity. Make her come to you. I did a bit of this yesterday. My wife wanted to comment on a radio news item. First, I told her to be quiet until it was over. Then I made sure that she had to come to me to get my attention and tell me what she wanted to say.

    This sort of thing can become second nature. You only have to do it sometimes. Women are good at reading status cues.

    Remember – she is lucky to have you. Your time is valuable.

  387. 7man says:

    @Gerald
    Don’t ask, TELL. Women may claim to want to make the decisions, but really they don’t like it. If she has to decide, it is a turn-off for her. So Rmaxd is right that dominance works well, especially if the man can also feel her heart and understand her desires better than she does. She will feel safe with such a man. Yes, it is a paradox.

  388. Rmaxd says:

    @Gerald

    Ill have to give you a complete answer in the morning its 2am here …

    Essentially youre right, you never tell a woman youre interested in the relationship, or tell her you love her first

    Youre supposed to lead her into saying those things …

    Love is essentially a person making herself fall for you … most of what makes a woman fall in love with you occurs when youre not around … her rationalisation of you makes her fall for you

    When you tell a woman you love her & give her gifts, & start indicating interest in the relationship, youre telling her youre going to provide the script for her to fall for you, instead of her rationalising her own reasons for falling for you

    Of course then theres the whole youre supposed to lead part

    Its pretty easy to make a woman fall in love with you

    Most gamers use a mixture of dhv & dlv, & comfort & push pull

    I use a concept i came up with called hyper-rationalisation

    All you have to do is get her to hyper-rationalise the relationship in her head, make her fall for you in her own head …

    Get a woman to hyper-rationalise correctly & she’ll hyper-rationalise the whole relationship before it even starts

    Basically you’re getting her to imagine the months of time it takes for her to bond with a person, in a matter of seconds

    Which is why acting aloof & arrogant works so well, it forces her to imagine the whole relationship, before it even begins, because of a lack of communication

    You also have to get whats known as sub-modalities right, your sub-communication right

    Basically control the conversation, & avoid reacting to her

    All communication is a reward to a woman, control the conversation, never let her take control of the topic & always win the arguements & fights, leading & domination basically controls how you reward her

    Avoiding reacting to a woman & what she says, basically stops her shit testing & prevents her from reacting emotionally, it also cuts off the emotional feedback when she acts irrational

    This is key to controlling a womans behaviour, never reward a womans behaviour, unless its sexually & its to serve you

    Her servicing you sexually & servicing you is all a reward a woman needs, anymore & you wont be able to control the relationship

    Also its important to realise most women dont have the intelligence to rationalise your response to them, all they’ll do is see your pissed off reaction as a reward & get even more crazier …

    From time to time you’ll have to put your foot down, & also most importantly you have tell her what you expect of her, when she misbehaves …

    Of course you dont have to do all of the above, if you’re alpha, we have game so we can internalise how to be alpha, once you use the above on a woman often enough, it in turn makes you naturally more alpha & successful

    It basically turns you into a beast of masculinity, a stallion of dominant behaviour …

  389. A lot of that is basically correct. From a married man’s perspective too. Don’t bicker with a woman. Don’t wheedle. Tell her what you want once. Don’t nag. Nagging is a weak behaviour.

    A lot of what women say is just static. There may be a message in there, but it can be very hidden. Men tend to be literal-minded. But it is fatal to assume that what a woman says is literally meant. A lot of it should be ignored. See what she DOES.

  390. Suz says:

    “her rationalisation of you makes her fall for you”

    We have a winner!

    Gerald, remember this always. It will never change, and it’s the same mechanism that makes women fall “out of” love. Women need to be in love. Incorporating the principles of game into your relationship, will make YOU the man she wants to be in love with.

  391. deti says:

    @ LindaJo:

    “I think women are still interested in men even as they age. Companionship, sharing, etc. Most men today do want a wife who will “take care of them and their children” but also someone who can make good money.. They want it all and they also want her to be 25 when they are 40 no matter their income or attractiveness.”

    I need my hamster translator:

    “We women are wonderful and altruistic. We want to be with our men even as they age because we love them so much (actually, we love the money, the status and the security.) “Companionship” means he takes me out for expensive dinners and entertainment. “Sharing” means he shares his pension with me. And if he doesn’t, there’s always a divorce lawyer to make him share and play nice.

    “Men are so damn shallow. They just want a woman who will bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, pump out the babies, and still give a mean BJ at the end of the day (’cause I’m a woooooo— MAN! Enjoli!) I can’t imagine why he thinks women are this way. It couldn’t be because of the constant bombardment of advertising, TV shows, movies, news reports, messages from pastors, instruction from teachers, a full phalanx of federal and state gender anti-discrimination and anti-sex harassment legislation, divorce laws heavily skewed in favor of women, and policies from HR departments telling us that women are exactly like men in every way and that women can have and do it all.

    “And men are shallow because they still want to have sex with these chippies when they are forty, fat, follicularly challenged, and finished. Not to mention broke and unemployed. Ewwwww, GROSS! Any man I sex up when I’m older better look like Sam Elliott and spend money like Bill Gates.”

  392. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    Once again, fellows, pay attention to what a woman does, not what she says. They’ll all tell you ‘I’m so awesomely awesome that men can’t handle my awesomeness’ but that’s right on a level with her 19 year old granddaughter saying she just wants to find a nice guy who’ll treat her well.

    An acquaintance of mine lost his wife to cancer recently. To be fair, the guy lives in a seven figure house and pulls major bank, but his wife wasn’t even cold before the casserole crusade started. His new “lady friend” looks like a cross between Andie McDowell and Ségolene Royal .

    I don’t blame him one little bit.

  393. Jokecougar says:

    Tracy, you are young and idealistic. I presume that you are also pretty. If so, you may find someone who will love you and treat you well, and I hope that if this is the case, you stay with him for life.
    But if, like some of us, you are not pretty when you are young, you will be invisible to these men when in your twenties. I mean, really, truly INVISIBLE. They won’t even look at you in a crowded room. If you work with them, they will tell you about their dates with other women without once considering that you might be interested in them. You’re like a piece of furniture. Men old enough to be your father might show some interest. If your experience is like mine was, they will all be cheating on their wives. And it’s better to be single than to be ‘the other woman’.
    It doesn’t get better with age. While men in their fifties will routinely date, and marry, women twenty or more years younger than themselves and not be considered odd, a woman in her fifties will be considered a total turn-off by men who are only five or six years younger. Forget the nonsense about ‘cougars’–those women are still young. It’s not hearsay, all of this has happened to me. Most men, including many on this forum, are extremely shallow. Or they really truly hate women. I can’t believe some of the comments here. If you men were less hateful and had less unrealistic demands, you could find wonderful women approximately your own age out there. There are many more good women than there are good men.

  394. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    It is very, very hard to be so un-pretty in your twenties that you are unattractive to all men. You almost have to work at it. If that is true, I am genuinely sorry for you. I have known some unfortunate girls for whom that was true. They learned to be happy in other ways, though.

    By the time you’re fifty, though, it usually boils down to weight and fashion sense. Extra weight sabotages more potentially attractive mature women than any other single factor. That and the fact that by fifty, you have the face you deserve.

  395. deti says:

    Jokecougar:

    Asinus is right on this. By and large, a woman in her late teens and her 20s has to work at being unattractive. I can count on one hand the women I have known who really weren’t attractive enough to pull a man. It’s axiomatic that all but the homeliest women can get men for sex any time they want.

    I don’t agree that most men are shallow. The fact that a man wants sex with an attractive woman does not mean he is shallow. The fact that men point out unattractive, unsavory female behavior does not mean they hate women. The fact that a man might want a younger woman than himself does not make him a “bad ” man. I don’t agree that that there are many more good women than good men. The fact that a woman acts consistent with her hypergamous nature does not make her “bad” any more than a man wanting sex from an attractive women makes him “bad”.

  396. Rmaxd says:

    Detis right, excellent comment by asinus women have to work at being unattractive …

    Stay slim, get a decent haircut … wear something slutty & have a decent i.q

    Of course the women with an over inflated opinion about themselves get all the guys

    @Jokecougar

    Presuming youre not trolling, what specifically did you think were hateful or unrealistic towards women?

    Is it hateful to say women get old & loose their looks? While a man in shape easily actually looks better & hotter then any 60 year old woman?

    Do you hate the truth so much, you have to label it as hate?

  397. Joe Sheehy says:

    Highly intelligent men, who have good jobs, who are not particularly short and not at all ugly, but not particularly handsome, are simply shut out by the young women who by all rational standards would be “in their league” in this society. (that is, if women actually had to pair off and commit when young, they would be choosing the men they are now scorning) Some of them move to the Far East where they are taller and more handsome than most of the men and can find a woman that is moderately attractive and willing to give her youth and beauty to him. Now why should a man want a woman who was giving the best years of her life to bastards who didn’t love her, just because she’s desperate? Nothing will sink in with these creatures, all these things have been repeated million times, but women make the beds they lie in.

  398. greenlander says:

    It doesn’t get better with age. While men in their fifties will routinely date, and marry, women twenty or more years younger than themselves and not be considered odd, a woman in her fifties will be considered a total turn-off by men who are only five or six years younger. Forget the nonsense about ‘cougars’–those women are still young. It’s not hearsay, all of this has happened to me. Most men, including many on this forum, are extremely shallow. Or they really truly hate women. I can’t believe some of the comments here. If you men were less hateful and had less unrealistic demands, you could find wonderful women approximately your own age out there. There are many more good women than there are good men.

    Thank God for the welfare state! If it weren’t for big government, fat old broads like you who thought there were too good for a beta in their twenties can now marry a beta “in the abstract” through wealth redistribution without having had to deal with an actual icky beta that whole time. Now you old shrews can draw social security, medicare and other assorted free cheese from Uncle Sam at the expense of productive people (who happen to be mostly men).

  399. Suz says:

    But of course, greenlander! Somebody has to feed us while we indulge our “finer feelings.”

  400. Just1X says:

    @jokecougar

    yeah, the apex fallacy works on women too, cry me a river. You only saw the attractive men, who weren’t interested in you. Bet there were men you didn’t fancy, of a similar SMP value to you, that you ignored.

    Women love to dish it out when they have the power, but boy do they bitch when they get a taste back. Trouble is, things get worse with age, and quicker for women than it does for men

  401. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    I keep saying it, but nobody believes me:

    The Sexual Market Place for people after 45 is the mirror image of what it was at 25. At 60, it is the mirror image of what it is at 15. Like 15 year old boys, the majority of women over 55 are sexually invisible. The difference is that boys at 15 have hope, whereas women at 55 have memories. There are some women over 55 who do all right (they look like 15 year old girls with a few wrinkles), but there are 15 year old boys who clean up as well.

    I wouldn’t be too hard on jokecougar. It is a devastating thing to be at the absolute bottom of the sexual food chain. Most women who bitch bitch bitch about the superficiality of older men focussing on the external at least have experienced the fleeting joy of being beautiful once in their lives, however well or poorly they handled it. To never have had that feeling must be a living hell. I know men so close to the bottom of the barrel that they preferred celibacy to what they could pull in the market. I don’t imagine its any different for women.

  402. ybm says:

    The funny thing is what constitutes “bottom of the barrel” for men today.

    – 6 figure income
    – 75,000 left on mortgage of a 5 bedroom house
    – Paid off Lexus
    – 2 collectors cars
    – Many outdoor activities including hunting fishing cycling and hiking
    – All his hair
    – Pleasant and polite

    Women: EWW GROSS GET HIM AWAY FROM ME!!!

    I am all of the above, and I chose to go my own way. I don’t want the used up, fucked out refuse of the thug culture of today. I aint gonna put a ring on that used up slut, but I will bang her a couple times.

  403. deti says:

    ybm:

    I can relate. Here was my situation at 25, three years before I married:

    –Two degrees, one of them a professional degree
    –mid-five figure income in a prestigious profession,
    –no dependents, no bastard children
    –no college debt
    –no mortgage, paid off car
    –in shape, pleasant, polite
    –hobbies included amateur acting and singing, hiking, bicuycling, weightlifting, travel

    Women’s reply?

    You’re too old
    You’re too bald
    You’re a creep
    You’re too fat
    You’re boring
    I’m just not feeling it

    I know many. many men like this today. Good jobs, good wage earners, not desperately broke, have their heads on straight, in shape, decent looking, not ugly but not model good looking either. These guys can’t get anything — not a SNL, not a ONS, not even a date with Susie Sunday School Teacher or Wendy Waitress or Sally Secretary.

  404. asinusspinasmasticans says:

    Guys –

    Now, imagine you are a woman and have had a steady stream of men in your life catering to your every whim – Charley to fix my computer, Tim to help me with Algebra, Bonedancer to fuck me and give me orgasms, Jake to help me move -and suddenly at age 35 you are transported into

    what you have just described.

    You’re too old
    You’re too fat
    You screech when you talk
    Your p**sy is too floppy
    You’re boring
    You’re still torching for Big Dirk Goneagain who left you with your second child
    You still think you’re special, but there are four more just like you right behind you,
    I’ll fcuk you but don’t make any demands on me
    I’m just not feeling it
    Don’t you ever shut up?
    I’m outta here
    By the way, can you loan me 70 bucks for my light bill? That’s a girl.

    Unless they understand what is waiting for them, they won’t change their ways

    BTW, when I mean bottom of the barrel, I mean liquid helium omega, like that guy Roissy talked about who offed himself at 28 and it was 4 years before they found his bones in his apartment. We could have easily married into the Beergoggle Brigade in our twenties, or grabbed some trailer trash during her mayfly moment of iridescence. These guys didn’t even have that option.

  405. Gerald says:

    I totally agree. I don’t even believe that women know what they want. I personally am 52 yo, make close to 6 figures, drive a BMW, my son is grown and out on his own, and I have never had trouble picking up women so I’m guessing my looks are not an issue!! And let me cut off the follow up banter, no the BMW is not what picks them up since I am aware of the game and don’t let on to what I have. Yet I meet women who want to serve their own interest irregards to what is required in a relationship or are so caught up in their own unsatisfying lives and routines they can’t even see a good man at their door. Women are to friggin emotional and on that rollar coaster they will never realize what they want

  406. deti says:

    Asinus:

    “Unless they understand what is waiting for them, they won’t change their ways”

    Agree 100% with all of it. Agree that for women, a man’s experience at age 22 will be her experience at 42.

    And don’t forget these:

    –“Because he tingled you, you married Dirk Goneagain who was the HS football team QB, who became an unemployed drunk and beat you and your kids, so you divorced him; and now you want me to wife you up and be stepdad to your kids? Pass.”
    –“I wanted to date you, but you married Harley McBadBoy. He ran off, and now you want me to play the role of Plan B? Pass.”

  407. Lily says:

    deti – if all of that stuff is really true, well done! Dating 25 women and having sex with 15 or whatever it was before you got married is pretty good going for a 25 year old (or even 28 year old) with those detriments! Suspects the things on the list are not all true but even if some or all true, that’s pretty good going.
    And the mind boggles at what women would tell a 25 year old they were too old.

  408. deti says:

    Lily: I know you’re trolling, but: I didn’t have sex with 15 women. Not even close. I dated at the the end of the traditional era and at the beginning of the current hookup era. We men were still expected to take women on proper dates. (Well, actually, beta providers in training were expected to date, pay for the date, and settle for LJBF when you called her a couple of days later.. The alphas could do whatever and whomever they wished.) There was very little “hanging out”.

  409. Lily says:

    Oh sorry. I really thought you’d had sex with 15 women or something very close, we even had a conversation about it on this very blog. Because I was confused on your comments (e.g. including years before 17 in the no sex years). Sorry if I remembered wrongly.

    Re dating versus today’s hanging out, I think this men dating/paying for date is a very American thing. And some other countries like Japan. Maybe more Asian countries. I remember reading a few years ago about how men in Japan were annoyed because women were now earning money but still expected the to pay for everything whilst the women would spend their money on clothes and trips abroad with their friends. Never really had it in the UK. Usually go ‘Dutch’. Unless say you’re at college and you’re going out with an older guy.

    I’ve asked male friends of mine and they haven’t really encountered women expecting them to pay.

    It was one thing I noticed about my guy. I’d go to pay half and he’d physically (he’s quite a big guy) put his hand over mine to stop me.

  410. Rmaxd says:

    @Lily

    Are you even in the right thread?

    Both of your comments dont even make sense … lay off the grass, or your hamsters tanked … not much difference …

  411. Anon says:

    Wow! This thread really grew legs. It seems that you Men’s Rights Activists get oh so defensive about this subject. Now let’s see…

    I am 55-year-old successful journalist who got married (for the first time) two years ago to a man who is a 56-year-old successful attorney. In other words, we are basically the same age, and not losers looking for meal tickets.

    I have an aunt who is 67, a retired RN, and got remarried (after being widowed following a 32-year marriage) two months ago. Her new husband is 66 and a retired pharmacist.

    To add “insult to injury,” my mom’s best friend is 76 and also widowed, and just got engaged to her 76-year-old boyfriend, who she first dated in college. (Yes, she went to college. She is — horrors!– a retired physician. By the way: Her late husband was also a physician. Oh, and her fiance is a retired physician, as well.)

    I repeat: Wow! These are just some examples of why you guys are full of crap!

    P.S. — Threatened much?

  412. Rmaxd says:

    @Anon

    No we’re not threatened by a 55 yr old baby aborting birth control popping, hopped up on hip replacement painkillers pensioner , your 67 year old aunt or your 76 year old moms best friend …

    But it looks youre threatened by men wanting to marry younger chicks, instead of your aunt, or your 76 year old moms best friend …

    Also theres some interesting statistics & facts in Dalrocks post, proving you pensioners are in fact threatened by men marrying younger & tighter sluts …

    Thnx for playing my worn out vagina is not like that … or my moms best friends vagina …

  413. Anon says:

    Read about some more “old, useless broads” who weren’t discarded for 20-something Barbie Dolls: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/13/teen-sweethearts-rekindle_n_1273652.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing11|dl20|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D135334

  414. Anon says:

    P.S. — I am not a “pensioner” ( I am actively employed, as is my new husband), I never took birth control pills, nor did I ever have an “abortion.” Oh, and I have yet to have a hip replacement (thanks to the fact that I am only 55, and have been exercising religiously since my teens, and now practice yoga five days a week). For the record, my 67-year-old aunt and my mom’s friends have never had hip replacements, either. Although I can’t speak for the others, I assure you that my vagina is in excellent condition, and is “working” just fine. LOL!

  415. Just1X says:

    re the huffpo link

    YAY! another femi-clown who thinks that one counter example to a set of statistics invalidates the results.

    Similar to; most people are right-handed. no, you’re wrong ‘cos I’m left handed…duh

    If we could harness wimminz’ stupidity our energy problems would be over.

  416. Just1X

    Yep….its the most pathetic form of forensic rhetoric. I cringe when I see that, because I know that no matter what is stated, this person cannot see past arms length, they are utterly ignorant, their life informs them, which informs their life, circular. EVERYTHING they do is based on one anecdote.
    The other form of this is when I say for example to my wife, “you’ve been kind of disengaged lately around here, all the studying you are doing”….and her response is “not true, last Saturday i didn’t study at all” Its using an anecdote to refute a generality. Its maddening

  417. anon , woman…..READ the damn comments, not the infernal subtext that women seem un-flipping-able to avoid inserting into the words of others.

    Since NO ONE claimed that EVERY woman is any certain way (hint, if I say “women do x” it does not preclude that some women do Y.) what, please explain this, is the motive behind sharing your story as if it has a tad of utility to the point here?
    I realize that you females thrive in hidden agendas and subtext (now, lets see, you will tell me of a man who is all about subtext and a woman who is quite literal…right?) but try reading the written word as it is written. Words mean specific things, strung together they convey specific and limited concepts. Limit the reading the the amalgam of the words and their meanings, get outside your head where you are constantly thinking “what does he/she MEAN by that?”.

    Its wysiwyg with men and comments, no more no less.

    An article showing men taking Barbies and jettisoning middle aged women is NOT data for the idea that “women tire of men after 55″.

    Can you not see that?

  418. Mule Chewing Briars says:

    Women think personally. If you go to a barbecue and ask a man who is grilling a steak where he bought the steak, he’ll reply “At the butcher’s on 12th Street.” If it is a woman who is grilling the steak, she’ll reply “Why? What’s wrong with it?”

    Anon. has done a lot of things right. She has exercised since her girlhood and remained physically and mentally active. It is kind of strange to wait until after menopause to get married, but to each their own. But not every postmenopausal woman is her, in fact, very, very few are going to marry successful attorneys close to their own age. There is no way for them to return to their late adolescences and begin the exercise routine Anon. has been practicing for 35 years, and allowing them to believe that they are only a few leg lifts away from the same outcome just allows them to continue in the same delusion.

  419. Suz says:

    “If you go to a barbecue and ask a man who is grilling a steak where he bought the steak, he’ll reply “At the butcher’s on 12th Street.” If it is a woman who is grilling the steak, she’ll reply “Why? What’s wrong with it?”

    This should be on a billboard. May I steal it?

  420. deti says:

    Anon’s comments are just more evidence that most women view absoltely everything through the prism of their own limited experiences. It can’t be true if she personally has not witnessed it or talked to someone else who experienced it. Her own experiences are Truth, and no amount of evidence, statistics or studies can refute that Truth.

  421. Donald Drew says:

    This blog has gotten way to intellectual and nasty for me, but the barbeque statement cracked me up. I have been dating one of these dreaded 55 year olds (opinion of many on this blog) for 3 years. She is 10 years younger than me, very attractive and fun to be with. But we recently traveled to Carmel for the recent PGA Pro-AM at Pebble Beach. We stayed at a nice place down the coast toward Big Sur and the motel was a long rectangle where you drive up to the front door of your unit. All units had a balcony facing the Pacific Ocean. So I drove up and checked in while my girlfriend stayed in the car. When I opened the door to the unit, you could see straight through to the sliding glass balcony doors and see the ocean. She looked at me and in a loving voice said, “did you upgrade us to an ocean view”? All I could do was say, “Yep”. I would like to think she was kidding me, but she called her best friend and told her about the great thing I had done……..So there is some truth in the Barbeque theory. I originally attributed her sometimes funny behavior to being blonde, but now I understand it is because she turned 55 :)

  422. Just1X says:

    @Donald

    I think that senses of humour begin to get frayed when the same damn statement is uttered for the 50th time.

    It is only the presence of women such as Suz (though she is not alone) which give me the strength to believe NAWALT.

  423. Just1X says:

    Of course, the other favourite old chestnut is;

    “Women’s fertility drops markedly in their mid to late thirties”

    cue the response

    “but, but, my friend had a baby aged 41, so you must be just lying and trying to oppress me with awkward, patriarchal, facts”

    Anyone claiming that facts are oppressive acts of the patriarchy is a 100%, full to the brim with bullshite, feminist. Oops, I repeated myself

  424. udolipixie says:

    @QA
    ” It strikes me that in evolutionary terms a woman and her offspring who didn’t have investment from a man later in life would be at a disadvantage safety and resource wise compared with women who did. I don’t see any reason why this would suddenly cease to be around the age of 55.”
    I don’t think the evolutionary terms apply her as women in that age bracket tend to hold the most wealth in women of all age groups. There’s also that nowadays it’s not really that much of a disadvantage to not have a man financially. In most cases the woman is out-earning him so he tends to be pocket change to her not an equal contributor much less the breadwinner which to me is the sole provider.

    I think there are several factors to consider:
    Increasingly more and more heterosexual women and men in America are becoming disinterested in relationships/marriage with the opposite gender.
    Most men over 30 do not want women their own age and date & marry women 10-20 years younger than then so a woman in her 50s options are extremely limited since there are few men her age away much less the 10-20 year older ones who would consider her a viable partner.
    The men at that age left don’t tend to be attractive (overweight like most Americans, bald which can be unappealng to some women, hairy which can be unappealing to some women just like hairy women tend to be unappealing to most men). Women are less visual not blind. For those claiming shallow well attraction is shallow. Pretty sure most haven’t approached a girl based on her personality. Let’s not forget the scores of men who bash women over 30 and the idolize men in their 50s-70s getting 20 somethings.

    So there are just women who are uninterested and women who became uninterested do to the lack of options they had.

    ” If women aren’t interested in marriage for life, what is the point?”
    Seems overeaching to me that marriage had any point to begin with. Legally it was just a man labeling his property. Religiously it was the same but with moral codes of chastity and monogamy.
    The only point to marriage to me is a life partner.
    Something as stated before increasingly many heterosexual women & men in America don’t want or don’t see the opposite gender of being worthwhile quality options for that.
    The question also seems to be working on that most men even see a point in marriage or are interested in it.
    I highly doubt most men want to commit in any form to a woman unless she’s his perfect ideal considering that most men delay any serious commitment until much later. The most serious committment most are willing to make is girlfriend aka girl for now which tend to be placeholders until she can be upgraded and are easily downgraded to fwb often without the girl knowing. GF tends to mean girl for now as being a gf doesn’t mean you have any real role in his life as as I find a lot of guys rarely do as women do combine gf material with wife material. Always amusing to see a girl only boyfriending guys she consider husband material and she finds out that guy doesn’t do the same and his gf requirements are pretty & pleasant as he’ll worry about the other stuff later if he feels like it.
    I really doubt that most men think of women as being long term investments in the same way as it seems to goes against biologically wanting variety.
    I highly doubt most men want marriage to American women as the Hate American Women and AntiAmerican Woman marriage movement seems to show.
    To me it seems like most Americans are interested in casual relationships which are really just dating and those that are looking for gf/bf there are more women than men. Then those looking for marriage there are more women than men.

    I’m glad for the American marriage strike and just hope more women get involved as laura’s story of being sold short is not uncommon. While having a life partner may be a romantic ideal for most women it seems the reality is forgotten:
    1. only 1 in 10 couples remain in love- most like it won’t work
    2. most men hit a mid life crisis if their partner is older or the same age as them
    * studies show generally men’s mid life crisis is not their own age but the aging of their wife they get the hot new car to attract a younger mate *
    3. most men don’t want to commit to a woman until much later in life and if you wait for that you’ll be the age where most men tend to see women over 30 as used up/old and even degrade their genitals
    4. if you want a guy while you’re young you’re most likely going to be getting unattractive boring uninteresting guys your age you have to force attraction for or 30-40 year olds who you may also force attraction for….shocker there are young girls who aren’t attracted to older men
    * stat wise there are few women who are attracted to a man because of his age aka he’s more attractive because he’s 10 years older. Most women are attracted to a man inspite of his age it’s not a negative like being a 30 year old woman is to most 30 year old men.
    * my experience plenty of girls I know marrying guys their age because he’d be a good husband/father not because they’re attracted to him and he’d be a good husband/father..then again attractive and relationship/marriage material rarely seems to exist in guys.. either way I see divorces waiting to happen when the resentment builds up
    5. most married men cheat 60%
    6. most married women cheat 50%- so likely you’ll cheat on him
    7. most likely you’ll divorce him
    8. not being divorced doesn’t mean happy as over half of married women are unhappy- so even if you don’t divorce most likely you marry you’re going to be unhappy
    9. 30% of married men are unhappy- there’s a possibility he’s unhappy

    The greatest challenge of all being in a happy healthy relationship with a partner who you’re attracted to who satisfies your sexual and emotional needs is near impossible for a woman.
    Most men aren’t interested in their partner’s emotional needs as that’s femininzing/pussification. Most men aren’t interested in their partner’s sexual needs unless for his own ego as her orgasm = her responsibility.
    I laughed for days when one girl by got told this by her bf and decided to start handling her responsibility by masturbating rather than having sex.
    It was quite hilarious to see them debate him on how she’s withholding/using sex as a weapon by not satisfying his sexual need. Her by stating it’s not a need for sex but a need for sexual release which he can get from masturbation and that she doesn’t see how she’s obligated to satisfy her partner’s sexual need when he has no burden to ensure her sexual pleasure. Plus having sex with him would be handling her orgasms irresponsibly as most women orgasm more and faster through masturbation than vaginal sex’s 30% chance and the less than half of the orgasm of your partner they’ll have in a relationship.
    They did not last. She went uninterested in men interestingly enough.
    ==========================================================================
    I’m highly amused by the negative reactions to laura’s comment of how she supported, cared, and was sexually active aka “with benefits” for her partner who poofed on her.

    If a male he was divorced most likely commeters would fill in the blanks that he was a good father, good husband, and that the ex was a spoiled American woman who just got bored and bled him dry in divorce.

    All this filling based on simply because he’s a man so he’s automatically assumed to be good rather than judged on his gender. It’s amusing because the commeters seem to be doing what most would readily claim feminists do automatically assuming men are at fault and all/most women are good simply because they are women.
    ==========================================================================
    @sestamibi
    That doesn’t seem to be feminism’s fault.
    If you’re blaming the autism that’s likely you as older males procreating are linked to autism so that’s genetics.
    If you’re blaming that you had a child late in life that’s on you as feminism didn’t completely halted all options for you to procreate when you were younger. Most likely you could have gotten a girl to marriage and have a child with when you were younger however it probably wouldn’t have been one up to your standards. It’s extremely rare for most people of either gender to have no options most people have options they just tend to not want those that are most available.

    Just like the average guy’s (5) complaints that they can’t get a girl usually tends to be false they can get a girl just not one that he wants who will do what he wants. They tend to have girls pursuing them just ones they find ugly (5 and below). Quite amusing to see how most guys consider a 6-7 settling when both numbers are above average.

    @Just1X
    Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.

  425. ybm says:

    Goddamn proof-read your writing next time that is an unreadable soup of stream-of-consciousness nonsense.

  426. Just1X says:

    The charge : fuckwittery
    The evidence: “In most cases the woman is out-earning him”

    and more evidence
    “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    You raise femi-“thinking” to new heights (this day, this blog)
    lose quantity for men…only need one decent swimmer, you’re talking about fewer also-swams.
    lose quality at 23…ORLY? don’t believe your numbers / “facts”

    You’re doing the old; X is true of women, BUT Y is true of men.
    Then demanding that X == Y, well it isn’t, tough luck toots.

    “Patriarchal reality(tm)” can be a bitch

  427. udolipixie says:

    Seems you’re lacking on the genetics research as well as American economics.

    Also looks like you’re displaying some of this behavior: “Anon’s comments are just more evidence that most women view absoltely everything through the prism of their own limited experiences. It can’t be true if she personally has not witnessed it or talked to someone else who experienced it. Her own experiences are Truth, and no amount of evidence, statistics or studies can refute that Truth.”

    “You raise femi-”thinking” to new heights (this day, this blog)”
    Where/when did I state I was a feminist? Seems you’re making the illogical assumption based on emotions and projecting what you want.

    ““Patriarchal reality(tm)” can be a bitch”
    Yeah more on that emotion overruling logic…..

    “You’re doing the old; X is true of women, BUT Y is true of men.”
    Now I’m doing studies state such and such about fertility quantity/quality in men and women.

    “Then demanding that X == Y, well it isn’t, tough luck toots.”
    Show me where I was demanding X == Y
    Pretty sure men drop in quality then quantity & women drop in quantity then quality isn’t X = Y.
    It’s men – quantity – quality
    it’s women – quality – quantity

    So how did you get your intrepretation? I’m not even curious to the femi-thinking as I think it’s just an emotional reactive attempt to dismiss any statement by a woman because if she has a vagina she’s a feminist.

  428. ybm says:

    “dismiss any statement by a woman because if she has a vagina she’s a feminist.”

    Yup. A womans “opnion” has about as much value to me as roadkill. The great thing is that there are more of us every day, and more and more women are starting to feel the same way. Enjoy your cats spinster!

  429. Just1X says:

    Because numb-nuts you are demanding that the decrease in fertility be regarded as equal between men and women.

    It’s men – quantity – quality == it’s women – quality – quantity

    so it is all ‘fair’. Well it isn’t equal. Reality isn’t fair. And I still didn’t see you give refs for your “facts”

    It’s all over by the mid forties for the vast majority of women (and hard 5-10 years earlier), men don’t have this catastrophic decline.

    Celebrity older fathers include: Tony Blair (at 45), Ken Livingstone (at 57), Mick Hucknall (at 47), David Bowie (at 53), Mick Jagger (at 57), Phil Collins (at 51), Rupert Murdoch (at 72), Michael Douglas (at 58), Des O’Connor (at 72), Gordon Brown (at 54), Rod Stewart (at 60), Paul McCartney (at 61), David Jason (61), Eric Clapton (at 59), John Humphrys (at 56), John Simpson (at 61), Julio Iglesias Sr. (father of the singer Julio, at 89), Charlie Chaplin (at 73), Augustus John (at 47), Pierre Trudeau (at 72), Saul Bellow (at 84), Anthony Quinn (at 81) Pablo Picasso (at 68) and Luciano Pavarotti (twins at 67), Jonathan Dimbleby (at 62), David Letterman (at 56), Larry King (at 65 and 66), Woody Allen (at 51), Warren Beatty (at 62), and Jack Nicholson (at 53), Mike Oldfield (at 54), Dennis Quaid (at 50), Rick Parfitt (at 59), Van Morrison (allegedly at 64), Kevin Costner (at 55), Rod Stewart (father at 66), Kelsey Grammer (father at 55), Ritchie Blackmore (father at 65), Frank Skinner (will be father at 55).

    Dr Brenda Eskenazi, a co-author of the report, said: “Our research suggests that men, too, have a biological time clock – only it is different. Men seem to have a gradual, rather than an abrupt change in fertility and in the potential ability to produce viable, healthy offspring.”

    femi-thinking means female-“logic is oppression, facts are what I decide they are”-thinking. It isn’t compulsory that you think like this BTW it’s just society allows women to get away with it more than men. I don’t know if you’re a feminist, but I’m sure that you’re an idiot FWIW.

  430. udolipixie says:

    Yup. A womans “opnion” has about as much value to me as roadkill. The great thing is that there are more of us every day, and more and more women are starting to feel the same way. Enjoy your cats spinster!”

    Cool then you’re just irrational emotionally reactive strawman guy who throws out verbal attacks.

    Egh in America both genders feel like sh*t by the other gender.

    More like bachelorette.

  431. ybm says:

    @Just1X

    I don’t know why you are bothering to refute any of her anecdotes because she did not come here in good faith to provide an argument. If it did, here would have been facts and figures and an attempt at grammar. Instead their was false-equivocation, verbal gymnastics, poor grammar, a complete lack of sources, and an obvious bad-faith demeanor.

    F- See me after class.

  432. ybm says:

    “Cool then you’re just irrational emotionally reactive strawman guy who throws out verbal attacks. ”

    Feels good man.

  433. udolipixie says:

    “Because numb-nuts you are demanding that the decrease in fertility be regarded as equal between men and women.”
    Where/when did I make any demand? More of your emotion overruling logic..

    Where/when did I state that there was an equal increase? More of your emotion overruling logic..

    Let’s look back:
    “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    Both genders lose fertility generally when 23.
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    Men lose quality and women lose quantity.
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    The only possibly equal thing that could be gleamed is that decline generally starts at 23 and really kicks off mid to late thirties.

    So how did you get your intrepretation? Oh right more of your emotion overruling logic..
    Reading what you what rather than what is then and projecting what you what.

  434. What is her point for petes sake?
    Distraction would be a compliment. There was once a day when those megabytes would be reclaimed based on need, now we have lots-a-space

  435. Just1X says:

    “false-equivocation” thank you I was trying to remember the correct term.

    Didn’t Zed give rather a good summary of all the standard delusional bullshit spouted by such as dolly? Just after xmas IIRC.

  436. Just1X says:

    “decline generally starts at 23 and really kicks off mid to late thirties.”

    yes…for women

  437. udolipixie says:

    “yes…for women”
    For both genders.

    Scientists actually state 25 once again for both because that’s when there is a significant drop however the decline begins at 23.

  438. Just1X says:

    you are shining wit (google spoonerism)

  439. Just1X says:

    “Toxoplasmosis: could that latent infection affect people’s behavior?”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/03/how-your-cat-is-making-you-crazy/8873/?single_page=true#1_undefined,0_

    one for dolly I suspect

    (gnight mout)

  440. Lets go with 23 and 8 months….’k…..split the difference

  441. Rmaxd says:

    @Udoli

    You mentioned genetic research & economics …

    Can you show us your research … you’ve already shown us you’re hamster … it looks pretty over fed & the treadmills about to fly off, I suggest less mexican soap reruns & more tacos …

  442. Rmaxd says:

    @Udoli

    “Both genders lose fertility generally when 23″

    Wrong, men dont loose fertility ever … apart from stds & infections

  443. udolipixie says:

    “Wrong, men dont loose fertility ever … apart from stds & infections”

    It’s lose and wow just wow.

    So never huh guess all that research age, health, smoking, drinking studies on sperm concentration, morphology, and motility is wrong.

  444. udolipixie says:

    “Lets go with 23 and 8 months….’k…..split the difference”

    Egh I’ll stick to 23 as that’s when it starts to decline generally for the genders.
    I get that until 25 it’s not a significant decline to be considered fertility loss by researchers.
    However to me it was still like saying it’s not cancer unless you have X cancerous cells.

  445. udolipixie says:

    “You mentioned genetic research & economics …”
    Perhaps you check your reading comprehension. I already did for the quality quantity bit when it was indirectly asked for.

    I normally don’t give out links as my way is when presented with new information look it up on a scholar search engine. Despite being first insulted and having others incapable of acting rationally and reading what they want rather than what is there I gave out the 2 names and clips for the quality quantity bit for others to look up.

    Once again I don’t spoon feed look it up not on me to keep you up to date on news.

    “you’ve already shown us you’re hamster … it looks pretty over fed & the treadmills about to fly off, I suggest less mexican soap reruns & more tacos …”

    Where/when have I shown I’m a hamster?

    I stated men lose quality then quantity and women lose quantity then quality. I’ve never backtracked on that and I provided information for others to check for themselves and gave scholar search engines aka paper study engines to do more research.

    Interesting as a hamster would be Just1X and his comments.

    Such as evading where/when I state anything like he claimed such as how he stating that I was demanding that the decrease in fertility be regarded as equal between men and women from this:
    “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    Both genders lose fertility generally when 23.
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    Men lose quality and women lose quantity.
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”
    *No mention of comparing amounts or the word equal.*

    The only possibly equal thing that could be gleamed is that decline generally starts at 23 and really kicks off mid to late thirties.

    The only hamsters I’ve seen are ymb and his insults and evasive tactics and JustX01 and his projections evading rationality.

  446. Rmaxd says:

    “Where/when have I shown I’m a hamster?”

    lol …

  447. udolipixie says:

    Ah evasion tactics.

    Seems ad hominens, shaming language, and evasion of rationality are the trademark of commenters here.

    I stated stated men lose quality then quantity and women lose quantity then quality.
    I’ve never backtracked on that.
    I provided information for others to check for themselves and gave scholar search engines aka paper study engines to do more research.

    Yeah that’s being a hamster. lmfao

  448. udolipixie says:

    So what’s insulting first, not supplying answers and evading, and projecting what you wanted rather than what was there?

    Yep much “logic” in “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” is someone demanding that the decrease in fertility be regarded as equal between men and women when no comparison to the amounts of decrease or the word equal was used.

    Then can’t answer where/when I demanded that or how they got that interpretation. Yet still continue on and when broken down that nowhere is that implication goes back to shaming and insults.

    Ah the emotions overruling logic. Well it is valentine’s day and seems you guys are hooked on being emotional rather than rational.

  449. Just1X says:

    @ ybm says:
    “February 14, 2012 at 11:25 am
    @Just1X

    I don’t know why you are bothering to refute any of her anecdotes because she did not come here in good faith to provide an argument. If it did, here would have been facts and figures and an attempt at grammar. Instead their was false-equivocation, verbal gymnastics, poor grammar, a complete lack of sources, and an obvious bad-faith demeanor.”

    In my defence, I wasn’t reading her drivel. I was using feminist debating techniques to play with her hamster (I was bored – sue me). I still don’t see that she made any points worth reading beyond a skim.

  450. What is the hill to die on here? This is the most absurd online micro debate Ive seen in a long time.

  451. udolipixie says:

    I made a statement and provided information that shows it to be true. Despite the ad hominens and my way of not providing sources because I don’t spoon feed in the age of digital technology where scholar search engines exists.

    I’m amused at this lack of sources when I gave it I just don’t spoon feed you want further details scholar search engine.

    I’m really amused by this bad faith demeanor bs coming from two commenters only insulted in their first responses and then when asked to show rationality continued to do so and projected what they wanted.

    Stating a fact and backing it up is not an argument to most logical people.

    However you’re not so you project what you want and your projected an argument.

    You claimed that I saying fertility loss is equal in the genders & that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women.
    Despite not being able to show where/when I said this as you claim when asked repeatedly.
    Despite not being able to show where/when I demanded what you claim when asked repeatedly.
    Despite not being able to show where/when I compared the amount of fertility or used the word equal when asked repeatedly.
    Despite me breaking down the statement to show that I did no comparing the amount fertility or use the word equal.
    Despite me asking where you got this projection.
    Despite my statement being:
    ““Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.””

    Most logical people would get men lose quality then quantity, women lose quantity then quality and the ages it occurs.

    Not fertility loss amounts in men and women are equal, that men losing quality then quantity & women losing quantity then quality is equal, and whatever else your mind got

    Yet on another page you continued to ask me after all this when I provided the information to back up my statement what numbers I’m talking about because in your mind ’m stilling saying fertility loss numbers are equal rather than what I stated.

    I told youwas on the incorrect page as it’s “Are Women Done With Men After Age 55″ where I stated gender quality/quantity lost and then broke it down again that what you was on your emotions not logic and asked you where/when I mentioned numbers or gave numbers.

    Funny how you didn’t reply that page but do so on here.

    My you’re amusing shifting the responsibility of your emotional irrational ad hominen filled shaming language evasion posts as feminist techniques because you were bored. Rather than you looked at a statement as a debate despite attempts at rationality because you were emotional. LMAO XD

  452. udolipixie says:

    @ empathologicalism

    Egh it wasn’t really a debate just ybm & Just1X being emotional and me wanting to see how emotional reactive, ad hominen first, shaming language evasion tactics commenters would react.

    I made a statements they insulted on two separate pages.

    So I provided information to back up my statement on one page & asked them what they found illogical that they felt they had to insult on the other page.

    YBM’s emotional reaction was being so focused on insulting me being so focused in insulting me that on the other page the wrong one he claimed I didn’t back up my facts on the when I already did and right after a Just1X also on the wrong page posted a clip of information that I did.

    Just1X’s emotional reaction was his focus on what he wanted to be there not what was there first claiming that I was trying to say fertility loss was equal. Then evading requests tos how me where/when I did what he claimed. He continuing on with what he projected claiming that I saying that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women. Then evading requests to show me where I compared the fertility loss amounts or used the word equal. Or just answering how he got any of that from: “““Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”” after I broke my statement down sentence by sentence.

    This was amusing. Thanks for the laughs ybm & Just1X whether you were serious or just trolling.

  453. udolipixie says:

    The little hissy fit is so cute.

    Insulting first on 2 pages. Not being able to keep track of what page to insult on. Being so focused on insulting that you what you insulted was wrong.

    Amuse me more.

  454. udolipixie says:

    Amuse me with some more evasion tactics,

    I’m already amused by your how my attempts to at rationality received more evasion on your basis that since I’m a woman I’m a feminist and since I’m a woman my opinion doesn’t matter

    Like I stated before on the other page you insulted and evaded rationality quite some time you’ve been spending on an opinion that doesn’t matter. LMAO XD

  455. ybm says:

    which opinion?

  456. udolipixie says:

    Which opinions didn’t matter it was who’s opinion.

    After all you’ve shown with your lack of reading comprehension sucks and you were just looking for the anything to insult.

    Recall your own words to this “dismiss any statement by a woman because if she has a vagina she’s a feminist.”.
    Yup. A womans “opnion” has about as much value to me as roadkill. The great thing is that there are more of us every day, and more and more women are starting to feel the same way. Enjoy your cats spinster!

  457. udolipixie says:

    So are you going to continue to amuse me with your hissy fits?

    I’m guessing you’re serious rather than just trolling. LMAO XD

  458. ybm says:

    When did I post that? Use the timestamp.

  459. udolipixie says:

    If I’m not going to look up information I provide for you what would make you think I’d look up the timestamp of one your many nonsensical emotionally reactive posts?

    Oh right you’re not logical. LMAO XD

    Amuse me more

  460. ybm says:

    How can I address your comment if you cannot identify what you are referring to?

  461. udolipixie says:

    I did identify what I was referring to.
    Recall your own words to this “dismiss any statement by a woman because if she has a vagina she’s a feminist.”.
    Yup. A womans “opnion” has about as much value to me as roadkill. The great thing is that there are more of us every day, and more and more women are starting to feel the same way. Enjoy your cats spinster!

    Let me spoon feed you since you can’t even recall what you typed. No surprise with your emotional reactive nonsensical posting.

    Copy & paste what you typed and click find in your browser if you want the timestamp.

  462. ybm says:

    So if you had to summarize your comments in one single phrase, what would it be?

  463. udolipixie says:

    I already did that repeatedly on this page and the other page were your first comment was an insult.

    Your lack of reading comprehension is showing again then again you weren’t trying to read what was there or be logical just focused on insulting. So now you’re going to be reasonable? LMAO XD

  464. Rmaxd says:

    Udoli this threads about ancient relics flaunting their wrinkled zimmer frames, & acting like sluts in their golden years, instead of behaving like decent paternal grandmothers …

    Why cant women, simply behave like decent ppl, & age gracefully, instead of clutching their u go girl attitude & stretch marks, well into their wrinkly old age …

  465. Just1X says:

    Garble OR Loopy?

    I vote both oh and Twunt

  466. udolipixie says:

    @Rmaxd
    Egh not really perhaps in your mind and to you that’s what this thread is about.

    The thread was about are women done with men after 55 and possible reasons as to why? along with side topics of fertility loss and comments by women over that age as to why they may or may not be done with men.

    Let’s not forget about ancient relics flaunting their balding pot bellied wrinkled framers acting like sluts instead of behaving like decent paternal grandfathers.

    “Why cant women, simply behave like decent ppl, & age gracefully, instead of clutching their u go girl attitude & stretch marks, well into their wrinkly old age …”
    Same reason men can’t behave decently, age gracefuly in fact deny any aging and clutch to their men are superior/men rule/u go dude/I wear the pants attitude stretchmarks, pot bellies and balding. Most people aren’t decent and cling to their youth it’s human nature.

  467. Rmaxd says:

    Baiting this dumass, is pretty hilarious …

    Here goes nothing …

    You get stretchmarks from childbirth …slim fit men in their old age, dont get stretch marks …

    Btw google want their translator back after reading your posts …

    Also its the majority of women who go around acting like whores well past their 50’s

    Ive yet to meet an ancient fossil who didnt think she was still the goto slut in the blitz

    Women dont age gracefull, in fact they get even more wacked out & delusional

    Older women are a whole new crazy, as the countless crones in this thread demonstrates … lol

  468. udolipixie says:

    @Rmaaxd

    Being called a dumbass by someone who stated “Wrong, men dont loose fertility ever … apart from stds & infections” doesn’t mean much. LMAO XD

    You also get stretchmarks from puberty and muscle bulking athlete training. Most men have stretchmarks as 40% get it from puberty.

    My country is America and most men here aren’t slim or fit and already have stretchmarks from puberty and/or weight gain with more than 60% of Americans are overweight/obese. Not so much on the athlete training lmfao. Not sure why the focus on stretchmarks though since there are surgeries to remove them.

    The majority of people act likes sluts, whores, and skanks. The notion of it’s easier for women to get sex wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t going by the idea that men are generally sluts and sexually available at a moment’s notice. So for men it’s that they’re either sluts, whores, and skanks or want to be.

    I have yet to meet an ancient fossil that didn’t act like or want to be a slut. After all most men seek variety and aren’t ready to settle down until much later in life.

    Humans don’t age gracefully and most American get more wacked out & delusional with age. Male aging is less focused on since women are less visual, are vain and focused on their own beauty, and society doesn’t judge a man’s worth on bis looks/youth but his character more. Wrinkles and sagging aren’t exclusive to women.

    Older men are also in this whole new crazy as you, ybm, and Just1X have demonstrated with ad hominens, irrational statements, shaming language evasion, and severe lack of reading comprehension. It’s no new thing as it seems emotionally reactive and evading attempts at rationality is the new way for males to communicate…at least online.

  469. Rmaxd says:

    & udoli defines a whole new crazy …

  470. udolipixie says:

    Coming from someone who stated “Wrong, men dont loose fertility ever … apart from stds & infections” LMAO XD

    So if you can be logical and no evade with insults what’s crazy about?
    1. Childbirth is not the only way you get stretchmarks there’s puberty, weight gain, and muscle building athlete training.

    2. Most men have stretchmarks from puberty (40%) and in my country from weight gain as most are overweight/obese

    3. Your slim fit men dont get stretch marks is a rarity as most men have stretchmarks from puberty and most men in my country aren’t slim fit.

    4. Humans don’t age gracefully & most American get more wacked out & delusional with age

    5. Your its the majority of women who go around acting like whores well past their 50′s is bs since most people act like sluts so it’s not just mainly women. The whole it’s easier from women to get sex wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t going by the idea that men are generally sluts or want to be and sexually available at a moment’s notice so apparently men are sluts or want to be at any age.

    6. Older men are also in this whole new crazy as you, ybm, amd Just1X have demonstrated with ad hominens, irrational statements, shaming language evasion, and severe lack of reading comprehension. As well as loads of other men though both young & old with their emotional reactive communication at least online.

  471. Just1X says:

    Check your shoes guys, did you step in something? That smell must be coming from somewhere.

    oh hang on, the ktazy kat lady is back…oh noes

    Still not making any points or sense, but hey you go gryyyyl

  472. udolipixie says:

    @Just1X

    It’s really amusing how you ad hominen and claim I’m not making sense but never answer any questions to show me where/when I’m not making sense.

    Yeah you taking”“Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean someone is demanding that the decrease in fertility be regarded as equal between men and women makes perfect sense LMAO XD

    Yeah what you got made perfect sense rather than than what it says men lose quality then quantity & women lose quantity then quality.

    Yeah you sticking to what you got made perfect sense despite:
    me repeatedly telling you that it means men lose quality then quantity & women lose.
    me repeatedly asking to show where/when I demanded what you claimed.
    me even breaking it down and showing you that there were no comparisons in fertility amount and the word equal wasn’t used.

    Yeah you made perfect sense to still to evade with insults and stick with whatever you wanted to read rather than what you read. LMAO XD

    So what did you want to read now that didn’t make sense?

  473. Is there a reason this topic about losing fertility is a hill to die on?

  474. Just1X says:

    “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    So what’s the point of that statement?

    It may well be true, but so what? what was your point in making it?

  475. udolipixie says:

    @ empathologicalism

    I thought that topic was already passed.

    I was just making note of how much sense Just1X has shown.

    Apparently the new topic is how it’s crazy, sh*t, and makes no sense that
    1. Stretchmarks also come from puberty, weight gain, and muscle building athletic training.
    2. Most men have stretchmarks from puberty (40%) and in America from weight gain as most are overweight/obese so old slim fit men with no stretch marks are a rarity since slim fit men at any age are the minority
    3. That humans don’t age gracefully in general
    4. It’s not just past 50 women who are acting like sluts but most people as the whole it’s easier for women to get sex wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t going by the idea that men are generally sluts or want to be.
    5. Both genders are in a whole new level of crazy in America

    Since this is Just1X and Rmaxd requests as to how it’s crazy, sh*t, and makes no sense are answered with insults to evade any explanation.

  476. udolipixie says:

    @Just1X

    That you had to ask me why I brought it up just shows how you emotional, irrational, and lacking in reading comprehension you are.

    There would be no need to ask me my point if you didn’t emotional react and insult first then evade my attempts at rationality and been so focused on what you wanted to be there not what was there. You wouldn’t have needed to go into your long winded ad hominens and evasions that you now claim you were doing as feminist tactics rather than your own emotions overruling logic. LMAO XD

    Let’s look at this rationally.
    Before my statement
    “Women’s fertility drops markedly in their mid to late thirties”

    My statement
    “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    Hmm..now why would I make that statement….. oh to provide a correction. A correction I provide sources for. It’s basically someone make an analogy with misinformation and someone else offering “actually it’s this”.

    Rather than look at it rationally what you did was insult first. Then showed your irrationality with your focus on what you wanted to be there not what was there. With your claim that I was doing X = Y then ignoring my response to that to go claim that I saying fertility loss is equal in the genders & that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women.
    Despite not being able to show where/when:
    I said this as you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I demanded what you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I compared the amount of fertility or used the word equal when asked repeatedly.

    Despite me asking where you got this projection and breaking down the statement to show that I did no comparing the amount fertility or use the word equal.

    ““Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.””
    Most rational people would get to mean men lose quality then quantity and women lose quantity then quality not some kind of demand, stating something is equal, or comparing fertility loss amount as you got and insisted on. LMAO XD

    Like I said you were so focused on what you wanted to be there and having something to argue. LMAO XD

  477. Just1X says:

    “oh to provide a correction”

    no, not really.

    women’s fertility does drop in her mid to late thirties (as I said)
    you’re saying it does it in her early twenties as well (yes, so what?)
    and it deops for men at both points (maybe, so what?)

    what point are you trying to make? you didn’t correct what I said

  478. udolipixie says:

    I did correct what you said.

    Research shows women’s drops at 23 though scientists don’t consider the levels to be fertility loss until 25.

    That is a correction. Or specification if you’re going to get unhinged and emotional again as I’m specifying when it begins dropping so others aren’t misinformed to think mid to late thirties are when women’s fertility begins dropping.

    It’s a correction to me as my statement doesn’t permit yours to mislead others into thinking women’s feritility begins dropping at mid to later thirties.

    It shouldn’t be that hard to grasp how others may conclude that as you somehow got ““Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean I was saying fertility loss was equal without equal being used or fertility loss amounts not being compared.

    Are you looking for something else to argue again? LMAO XD
    Still amused at how at your claim that I was doing X = Y then ignoring my response to that to go claim that I saying fertility loss is equal in the genders & that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women.
    Despite not being able to show where/when:
    I said this as you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I demanded what you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I compared the amount of fertility or used the word equal when asked repeatedly.

  479. Just1X says:

    That’s not a correction, it’s an addition.

    That’s where it all started.

    So what point were you trying to make?

  480. udolipixie says:

    I already answered what point I was trying to make with my statement. Your lack of reading comprehension is showing again as the answer is in the post above you. LMAOXD

    Are you aware that to many an addition is a correction? LMAO XD

    That’s not where it all started.

    Where it all started was that you your comment to my posts on two separate pages were ad hominens and on both pages you Ignored my requests to show rationality with shaming language and more ad hominens.

    On this page you claimed that I was doing X = Y then ignored my response to that to go claim that I saying fertility loss is equal in the genders & that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women.
    Despite not being able to show where/when:
    I said this as you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I demanded what you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I compared the amount of fertility or used the word equal when asked repeatedly.

    Despite me asking where you got this projection and breaking down the statement to show that I did no comparing the amount fertility or use the word equal.

    Your focus on what you wanted to be there and wanting to argue something & ybm’s focus on having something to insult was were it all began.

  481. Just1X says:

    Well, here in the patriarchy we tend to say it started with the first comment:

    “@Just1X
    Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    And you haven’t got to any point so far…come on give it a try, what point were you trying to make?

  482. Just1X says:

    TL;DNR

    oh sorry, it’s not that I have a problem with reading comprehension. It’s that I don’t bother reading your drivel, you appear to have noticed which spoils the game a little. (I only caught the comprehension bit this skim through). I’ve never read all of any of your comments; but you never made a point worth reading, so that’s fair.

    p.s.
    an addition is not a correction; it builds on the original statement, it doesn’t negate it’s truth.

  483. udolipixie says:

    @Just1X
    You do lack reading comprehension.

    As only one with severe lacking would get “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean I was saying fertility loss was equal without equal being used or fertility loss amounts not being compared.

    My statement wasn’t drivel your ad hominens and shaming language evasion tactics were drivel.

    They were amusing but drivel nonetheless.

    My follow up comments certainly weren’t reading as they were addressing your ad homens, evasion tactics, and irrationality. My post-comments were just me attempting to get rationality from you something obviously that would fail as you seemed focused on what you wanted to read versus what was there.

    Your ps would only be warranted if I said that your statement wasn’t true. Something I didn’t.

    The fact you continue to ask this “And you haven’t got to any point so far…come on give it a try, what point were you trying to make?” despite it being answered repeatedly and me telling you the answer is in the post right above you when you asked it again once again shows your lack of reading comprehension. LMAO XD

  484. udolipixie says:

    @Just1X
    Perhaps you can recall this:

    “Are you looking for something else to argue again? LMAO XD
    Still amused at how at your claim that I was doing X = Y then ignoring my response to that to go claim that I saying fertility loss is equal in the genders & that I had demanded there was equal loss of fertility in men and women.
    Despite not being able to show where/when:
    I said this as you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I demanded what you claimed when asked repeatedly.
    I compared the amount of fertility or used the word equal when asked repeatedly.”

  485. Just1X says:

    No, don’t recognise it. I didn’t read it then, or now.

  486. Just1X says:

    Okay, your statement wasn’t drivel (that specific initial one, and only that one).

    It just had no point, so what that everyone’s fertility drops?

    Women’s to zero (within ~10 years), men’s drops but is still functional for decades after

  487. ybm says:

    Holy this girl is still producing word vomit? I don’t check this thing for 2 days and shes written even more dissertations nobody will ever read?

  488. udolipixie says:

    @ybm
    You’re back and back to just insulting to insult while evading rationality with shaming language and ad hominens.

    So cute.

  489. Just1X says:

    @YBM
    what does the XD mean anyway? eXceptionally Demented, eXcited and Dumb, eXcessive Diatribe, eXtreme Drivel?

    I would ask ‘her’, but I’ve never finished reading any of her word-salad comments yet. Come to think of it, she may have already explained XD

    20000 words and yet to make a point, that’s “impressive”, even for a feminist.

    Late here and had my fun tonight, good night

  490. Just1X says:

    p.s.

    Looks like she gets off on being abused, she came to the right place

  491. udolipixie says:

    @Just1X

    My initial statement wasn’t drivel but as I said my followup’s comments were as they were addressing your ad homens, evasion tactics, and irrationality and attempting to be rational by asking wtcupcake did you get your bs.

    lmfao @ you claiming I’m stating something then demanding something when you didn’t even read my posts.

    Lacking reading comprehension would seem far better than posting without reading then ASSuming and deciding what someone is stating.

    Evading attempts at rationality when questioned about your bs would seem far better than just insulting and using shaming language. Both irrational but one is reading what you want the other is not reading and deciding what you want.

    The fact that you’re still on my statement has no point is so amusing when I’ve repeatedly told you and even said to look to the post right above you when you asked again.

    Let’s look back:
    “It’s a correction to me as my statement doesn’t permit yours to mislead others into thinking women’s feritility begins dropping at mid to later thirties.

    It shouldn’t be that hard to grasp how others may conclude that as you somehow got ““Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean I was saying fertility loss was equal without equal being used or fertility loss amounts not being compared.”

  492. udolipixie says:

    I’ve already stated I was here just to laugh at you and ybm’s reactions.

    You two are hilariously idiotic

    Just1X not even reading then deciding what I’m claiming not once but twice.

    YBM being so focused on insulting that he insulted something he said I didn’t do when I had already done it and a commenter had shown proof of that right before his insult.

    Especially with this feminist thing you two have going on when I haven’t said I’m one.

    Then again ybm stated to him a woman is a feminist because she has a vagina and you seem to be on him..wink wink. Real rational. LMAO XD

  493. ybm says:

    its an emoticon. I think its supposed to be someone laughing so hard they are squiniting. Kind of like
    :D

    is a big smile.

  494. Just1X says:

    “My initial statement wasn’t drivel but as I said my followup’s comments were”

    FINALLY she admits to writing drivel, apart from the initial pointless comment.

    Success – Yay!

    YBM – thanks for the XD explanation. Boy was I wrong when I thought she had no sense of humour. She’s a laugh a minute (laughing at her, not with her – but by feminist standards, magnificently hilarious)

  495. udolipixie says:

    Duh my follow up comments were drivel they were responses to you & ybm.

    “My initial statement wasn’t drivel but as I said my followup’s comments were as they were addressing your ad homens, evasion tactics, and irrationality and attempting to be rational by asking wtcupcake did you get your bs.”

  496. udolipixie says:

    What do you mean finally I stated that from the beginning that I was just amusing myself with you two.

    See what not reading & deciding what someone is saying gets you? LMAO XD

    Awh but back yourself on the back for whatever you need to justify yourself as a win..lmfao

    You with your not reading and deciding what I’m saying & YBM with him being focused on insulting me.

    Emotionally reactive nonsensical irrational guys like you are hilariously idiotic.

  497. Just1X says:

    no, no, no back tracking now dolly.

    you came clean with;

    “My initial statement wasn’t drivel but as I said my followup’s comments were”

    does “you daft moo” work for an american?

  498. udolipixie says:

    It’s not backtracking.

    Like I stated I said that from the beginning.

    That’s on you not reading that you just now got that.

    All you’ve done so far is state my initial statement wasn’t drivel.

    It’s not a success when a person states it was drivel to responding to your drivel aka insults, evasions, and attempting rationality with you on two separate pages.

    That’s a failure for you…if you’re a rational person.

    You’ve clearly shown you’re not..lmfao @ you

    So will you be amusing me so more.

    Oh do tell how it’s a yay success that someone thinks responding to your drivel is drivel. Your “logic” is so cute.

  499. udolipixie says:

    “My initial statement wasn’t drivel but as I said my followup’s comments were as they were addressing your ad homens, evasion tactics, and irrationality and attempting to be rational by asking wtcupcake did you get your bs.”

    Hey at least you’re moving up on your reading.

    Rather than not read and decide what you want you’re reading what you want. LMAO XD

  500. udolipixie says:

    Oh better yet:

    Tell me how your “logic” got “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean I was saying fertility loss was equal without equal being used or fertility loss amounts not being compared.

    Tell me how it’s logical to respond to a person’s post with an insult then say they are the one with a bad faith demeanor.

    Tell me how it’s logical to continually post without reading what someone is saying but make claims twice on what they are saying…all while missing their questions asking where you get your bs.

    Tell me how it’s logical to state a person is backtracking when they said they multiple times on the other page where you insulted first, shame language evaded, and were emotionally reactive they were just amusing themselves with your responses.

    LMAO XD

  501. Just1X says:

    As I said

    “FINALLY she admits to writing drivel, apart from the initial pointless comment.”

  502. udolipixie says:

    You: “Women’s fertility drops markedly in their mid to late thirties”

    Me: “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.”

    My statement doesn’t permit yours to mislead others into thinking women’s fertility begins dropping at mid to later thirties.

    Not that hard to grasp how others may conclude that as you somehow got “Actually both genders fertility drop generally when 23. Men lose quality and women lose quantity. Then when mid to late thirties hit men lose quantity and women lose quality.” to mean I was saying fertility loss was equal without equal being used or fertility loss amounts not being compared.

    LMAO XD

  503. udolipixie says:

    So how pointless is it to not read and continually post making claims on what someone is saying not once but twice? LMAO XD

  504. never wrong says:

    women in general, play very hard to get today. years ago, they were a lot smarter than now. most of them have a very bad attitude, and are very nasty as well. trying to start a conversation with them is very hard, because they will walk away. women have certainly changed over the years, and it will get worse as time goes by. once women’s lib took over, it really messed their head up. psycho’s with an attitude problem.

  505. Bubbles12 says:

    I am 53, look 35 and have my pick of guys, but yes, getting less and less interested, even couldn’t be bothered going out. I thought something was wrong with me. Maybe not. Maybe tired of being used. I might consider a very rich man, though.

  506. Gerald says:

    I agree women now a days are messed up in the thinking and emotional area more so than in the past. I would liken it to someone who is instantly given freedom but stands there like a deer in the headlights because he has no idea what to do. Some women think that with society saying that they and men equal that they have gained success! Not only from my observations but from what I heard from women themselves, they have shot themselves in the foot so to say. Not only did they give up being able to stay home, they now suffer the same stress same heart attacks as men have always because of having to compete in the workforce. They have tried so hard to put themselves on the same level as men they now complain that men do not view them as different sweet special creatures like in thier mother’s day. But if course when anything is equal and nothing makes it different from what you are you are not going to appreciate it. Yet women are stupid enough and expect men to treat them as equals and yet be the chivalrous men of their father’s time. Get real men don’t open doors for men! They want the best of both worlds. Welcome it just can’t happen! As they say you can’t have your cake and eat it too! My beleif even though I see it slowly disappearing is that men still try to spoil women, pay for the dates, etc because some and I mean some women still make that free meal a Prerequisite to having sex but that men would do it if women didn’t make it a requirement I doubt it. Women welcome to the society you created for your selves! Happy? I wonder what June Cleaver would say?

  507. udolipixie says:

    @never wrong
    In what way do most women play hard to get? In America most women are pretty easy to get in bed as most Americans are pretty loose with casual sex.

    In what way were they smarter years ago? Most people’s intelligence have improved from the past with the exception of certain areas as Americans reading and math skills have shown. Do you mean smarter as in easier to get? That doesn’t mean they were happy as depression rates and conversations from married women from that time will show.

    “most of them have a very bad attitude, and are very nasty as well ”
    In America most people have a bad attitude and are nasty it’s not a gender thing it’s a people thing. The only gender thing that comes into play is how much bitterness men have for women & women have for men.

    “trying to start a conversation with them is very hard, because they will walk away.”
    While societally rude no one is obligated to talk to you. Some women can walk away and aren’t too bothered by the social conditioning of having to be nice and endure an unwanted intrusion into their time and space to indulge a guy who is most likely really just saying “want some d*ck”.

    “women have certainly changed over the years, and it will get worse as time goes by.”
    Men and women have changed over the years. As loads of pro-male and pro-female blogs, sites, forums, and chat rooms tending to spew hatred, bitterness, resentment, and distrust it seems it will get worse as time goes on.

    “once women’s lib took over, it really messed their head up. psycho’s with an attitude problem.”
    I think extremists in women’s lib & people’s reaction to women’s lib messed up society.

    Women’s lib meant that women had the same rights as men.

    These rights now afforded them to be independent and provide for themselves meaning they no longer had to depend on a man for survival therefore:
    they no longer had to accept an y half-decent guy bargaining on their youth/beauty
    they no longer had to stay in a relationship they didn’t want because they needed a paycheck
    the only reason to be in a relationship with a man was because you wanted him and not because you needed him to survive

  508. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    Most men & women are suffering more stress and health issues then they had in the past.

    I doubt that in the times women stayed at home they were far less stressed than men. The stress levels between the men & women now and then most likely isn’t that wide of a gap. With far less rights, depending on your partner who could rape/beat you and it be swept under the rug, sexual repression, and the rate of depression amongst women the stress levels were likely to be equal to men who had the entire financial burden upon them.

    As for the heart bit women were always more likely to suffer heart issues and it wasn’t due to the workforce.

    “They have tried so hard to put themselves on the same level as men they now complain that men do not view them as different sweet special creatures like in thier mother’s day.”
    Those are the whiners. Some women talk about equality then whine when they don’t get the benefits of traditional stuff like chivalry. Some men talk about equality such as when it comes to finances & paying bills then when whine when they don’t get the benefits of traditional stuff like the slut standard and domestic duties being called women’s work.

    That’s to be expected and nothing new as people tend to go with what suits them at the moment.

    I also highly doubt that men in those times or any times viewed women as different sweet special creatures. That seems to be reserved for exceptionally beautiful young women who are eager to please men not the general view of the female gender. That general view being women are inferior and worth less than a man.

    “Yet women are stupid enough and expect men to treat them as equals and yet be the chivalrous men of their father’s time. Get real men don’t open doors for men!”
    Egh that’s some women. Just like some men are stupid enough and expect women to be equal financial contributors & get the same consequences for their actions and yet be domestic ladies, promote the slut standard, and have him “wear the pants” as he’s a man.

    “They want the best of both worlds.”
    As do men. As do most people. It’s a human thing.

    “My beleif even though I see it slowly disappearing is that men still try to spoil women, pay for the dates, etc because some and I mean some women still make that free meal a Prerequisite to having sex but that men would do it if women didn’t make it a requirement I doubt it. ”
    WTCupcake? O.O

    Where do such men exist? What country are you from? Most men in America from my observations and from what they say don’t pay for sh*t until they are having sex with her and they certainly don’t spoil their gfs/wives because they believe American women are spoiled already.

    In fact the men try to bring the women down and insult them so the women get off the pedestal he assumes she was on.

    As for a free meal being a prerequisite to having sex..the slut standard prevents most women from having sex with a man they want when they want to. Not sure how f*cking for food is better but that’s society. Or are you talking about a free meal being a date with the whole whoever asks pays policy? Some women don’t f*ck guys they don’t date.

    “Women welcome to the society you created for your selves! Happy? I wonder what June Cleaver would say?”
    I’m happy with society. The legal system and healthcare could use some work but I ‘m able to provide for myself and be self-sufficient without having to rely on my youth-beauty to bargain for my survival.

    June Cleaver would likely only say what pleased her husband.

  509. Gerald says:

    @udol: maybe our experiences and summations differ because of our backgrounds? I live I’m Miami. Am Latin ( even though I grew up American since my parents came over while I was in diapers. But here in my reality women are as I described. they want to be today’s woman yet want men to those of yesteryear. I dont agree with men and women being equal In the sense of the same. Men and women are no less important than each other but we are different physically, emotionally etc. Men and women are meant to compliement not compete against each other. That’s why women are nuturers and men providers. We were made that way. But yes here were I have to exist women want to be equals but expect men to wine n dine them. Women wanting to be equals is what has lead to men expecting them to be like us, as you stated sluts! Of course I am not saying back in the day it was better but I think today mentality has contributed to higher divorce rates, fewer serious relationships, more unfulfilled people, kids running the streets without parents, the norm being single parents and generation of kids not knowing what a family is and don’t give me society adjusting the thinking to make all these things acceptable substitutions for what is meant to be. I even know men that have sworn women off just as women have sworn men off. It’s a sad reality. So all your justifications are worthless to me and your generalizations are typical of today’s society trying to accept a unnecessary evil.

  510. “”I doubt that in the times women stayed at home they were far less stressed than men. The stress levels between the men & women now and then most likely isn’t that wide of a gap. With far less rights, depending on your partner who could rape/beat you and it be swept under the rug, sexual repression, and the rate of depression amongst women the stress levels were likely to be equal to men who had the entire financial burden upon them.””
    ———————————————————————-

    Oh phooey

    A woman who has been beaten or raped which means her husband was of that nature, sure, maybe she was more nervous. but this typical feminist extrapolation that because something could theoretically happen, we paint the male gender with it and then show how that affected ALL the poor dears is bunk.
    Never mind that the whole idea about men doing that and not suffering consequences is overstated anyway, other men sorted that stuff out right away.

    No, a woman with a good husband who treated her like a precious wife was definitely NOT as stressed as the man w/ the burden of providing. That most men were good, I guess you likely doubt, so steeped in misinformation you seem to be. That there are legal consequences now to abuse, is it gone then? Are women still stressed about it? You may have impeached yourself here with this, claiming on the one hand she had so much stress then, and in another context youd claim she has the exact same stress now, feminism having it both ways YAWN!

  511. udolipixie says:

    @udol:
    I’m in FL as well. My observations are that both men & women are like that and those women & men are the whiners.

    Whiner women tend to want to be of today but want their partners to be of yesterday…without the parts they dislike of course.

    Whiner men tend to want their partners to be both women of today aka share responsibilities/burdens equally and women of yesterday catering, pampering,spoiling, and pleasing him as he “wears the pants”. Essentially they want a partner who does equal work to treat as an subordinate//inferior.

    “I dont agree with men and women being equal In the sense of the same.”
    I believe men & women being equal in these sense of equal rights & responsibilities & treatment with no one being considered superior/inferior to the other. Pretty clear that human beings aren’t equal some are smarter, more attractive, etc than others so clearly the genders aren’t equal.

    “Men and women are meant to compliement not compete against each other.”
    Egh I disagree due to the people having different sexual orientations. I’m not on the whole hetero men & hetero women are missing puzzle pieces or whatever. Nor and I on the whole hetero women need men and hetero men need women. For me it’s more like hetero women want men and hetero men want women.

    “That’s why women are nuturers and men providers. We were made that way.”
    More like society and cultures are structured that way to me.

    To me it’s not a gender thing to provide as self-sufficiency is providing for one self. Nor is it a gender thing to nurture as plenty of fathers and want to be fathers I know would take dislike to that.

    “But yes here were I have to exist women want to be equals but expect men to wine n dine them.”
    Yeah they are called the whiners. People tend to expect others to do what serves them and want the best of however many worlds they can get.

    “Women wanting to be equals is what has lead to men expecting them to be like us, as you stated sluts!”
    Egh most people are sluts or want to be. If there were no stds and fear of rape pretty sure more people would be jumping on the free love train.

    I don’t think the mentality contributed to higher divorce rates as much as women being able to divorce with far less fear of providing for themselves as they don’t need a man to survive and society being more accepting of divorce than in those times.

    I think the get it now and self centeredness of American society has contributed to fewer relationships not the slut mentality.

    My belief is that society as it progresses tends to have more unfilled people than it did in the past.

    “the norm being single parents and generation of kids not knowing what a family is and don’t give me society adjusting the thinking to make all these things acceptable substitutions for what is meant to be.”
    What exactly do you think is meant to be? for me it’s healthy & happy parental units or a parental unit financially, mentally, and emotionally capable of raising a child or children.

    “I even know men that have sworn women off just as women have sworn men off. It’s a sad reality. So all your justifications are worthless to me and your generalizations are typical of today’s society trying to accept a unnecessary evil.”
    The only thing that could be considered a justification is my statement that whiners wanting both of best worlds is just human beings tend to go for what suits them at the moment. Not really a justification as I haven’t approved or said the behavior is correct more like an explanation.

    Exactly what other justifications do you think I’ve made? As I haven’t made any statement about behaviors being correct/acceptable.

  512. Gerald says:

    Thank you! Here feminist justification of worst case to justify women’s attitudes today is BS! There us no way that you can convience me that women had the same stress before that they have today. Maybe her views are because she was in an abusive relationship herself and now she wants to label all men even the good ones as such. Women having more heart attacks and stress related dieseases are Attributual to today’s lifestyle and there quest to be equals. Again welcome to a mans world. All of today’s down fall is the result of feminism. She will say she is happy being able to provide for herself rather than having to depending on a man. Right! Lol. If men’s attitudes towards women have changed is because women want to be viewed as men and we know how men are with men and women complain that we treat them equally? Were I’m from women dinwant the best if both worlds because they recognize that even though they want to be equals they also know they gave up a gpod thing in being cared for by a decent guy. And no here no woman reaches for her purse when the check hits the table.

  513. udolipixie says:

    @empatholoficalism
    So a woman is who is beaten/raped by her husband who she is dependent on for survival in a society where she has less rights and divorced is frowned upon would only be nervous…o.O

    I would think being dependent on another person for survival would be some form of stress as well as having less rights.

    Completely unfathomable and only feminist thinking to suggest that she could be stressed. O.O

    Just because it theoretically could happen doesn’t mean all/most of the male gender is painted with the action. Women can rape men, men can rape women, women can rape women, and men can rape men. It doesn’t mean all/most human beings are painted as rapists. It just means some individuals can do such a thing.

    To get seems to suggest that you have an issue with the concept that men who can do bad things exist and are one of the types who believe majority of men are good and only a minuscule minority are bad.

    Egh not my view more like men & women are good and bad no majority/ minority view.

    “other men sorted that stuff out right away”
    Egh not really. I’ve talked to loads of women from that time.

    Do recall marital rape wasn’t even looked at as a crime in the majority of those times so it wasn’t even something wrong to be sorted out. In the past domestic abuse, child abuse, and icnest were swept under the rug more than they are now.

    ” No, a woman with a good husband who treated her like a precious wife was definitely NOT as stressed as the man w/ the burden of providing.”
    Egh not many women had that. Not many women have that now. Back then the general view as certainly more women are inferior.

    “That most men were good, I guess you likely doubt, so steeped in misinformation you seem to be.”
    Yes I doubt that. I don’t do majority good men/minority bad men or majority good women/minority bad women. I think it’s an equal a balance and I judge based on individuals.

    The only groups I do majority good/minority bad or vice versa are groups that have standards for their behaviors. Like to me the KKK is majority bad.

    “That there are legal consequences now to abuse, is it gone then? ”
    Legal consequences doesn’t mean people stop doing it.

    “Are women still stressed about it?”
    Most likely only if they are currently abused/raped .
    They’re not likely to stress because now women can:
    press charges as it’s not a sweep under the rug thing as much as before.
    divorce as it’s less frowned upon and there’s far less fear on how will they survive as they don’t need a man to provide for them.

    There are now different things for the genders to stress about. With progress comes new stresses.

    “You may have impeached yourself here with this, claiming on the one hand she had so much stress then, and in another context youd claim she has the exact same stress now, feminism having it both ways YAWN!”

    I didn’t impeach myself because that’s not what I claimed.

    No that’s what you read or wanted to read.

    “The stress levels between the men & women now and then most likely isn’t that wide of a gap. ”

    Exactly the same is nowhere in there.

    What I stated was the stress levels between men and women most likely aren’t that wide of a difference from then and now. Such as women then stress level was 6 men’s 8 and women now stress level is 5 and men’s 7. Not that wide of a gap between then and now.

  514. Gerald says:

    Your babel is exactly what I am stating that is a result of today’s mentality. Yes I will give you that today’s society is self centered and selfish and each gender is out for whatever suits them without regard for what is beneficial to thier partner or the relationship as an US! I can go back as far as the caveman to show that equality as in the same didn’t exist. Men were hunters and women nurturers. Men And women complimented each other and came together as one. Try taking yourself out of the feminist today societal thinking pattern and even sit and talk to women who grew up back in the day and listen to thier opinion and I will guarantee that although they like the fact that women are given a choice today that they did sacrifice big time to get it. Are men and women whiners? Maybe? But again it’s attributal to todays mentality. Women want men to be like those of yesteryear and men have taken the attitude because of feminism to say, hey your my equal why should I spoil, treat, or behave with you any differently than I do with other men, you want to make as much money as undo then cough up an equal share when the bill comes to the table. Why should I provide, didn’t you want to be the same?

  515. Suz says:

    @ pixie:.
    “In what way were they smarter years ago?”

    In the past we were “smarter” because society generally followed our biological gender roles. A few quirks notwithstanding, it worked far better than the feminist denial of human nature. Feminism thinks we can and should choose and define our gender roles according to our whims.

    “In America most people have a bad attitude and are nasty it’s not a gender thing it’s a people thing.”

    Not a gender thing? Are you blind? Try watching TV for an hour without seeing a “good-natured, non-malicious” portrayal of men as bumbling idiots. It’s a horrible attitude, disguised as subtle humor. You don’t even notice it because it’s not “rude.”

    “Women’s lib meant that women had the same rights as men.”

    Bahahahahaha! You’re trolling, aren’t you? When women won the right to vote, to own property, and to be educated, they had the same rights as men. Then they promptly voted themselves more rights than any man will ever have. “Women’s lib” means women can play at acting like men right up until it’s time to pay the piper. Then it’s men and “society” (productive people, mostly men) who write the check.

    “In fact the men try to bring the women down and insult them so the women get off the pedestal he assumes she was on.”

    If she’s female, in the West, she IS on a pedestal. See above.

  516. Suz says:

    “‘That’s why women are nuturers and men providers. We were made that way.’
    More like society and cultures are structured that way to me.”

    *to me*
    There it is. Your ignorance is showing. “Society” and “cultures” have survived in a hostile world BECAUSE of inborn gender roles. Society did not create male behaviors and female behaviors. male behaviors and female behaviors created society. We would be extinct without them.

  517. Gerald says:

    @suz, her comments are her justification for women roles viewed through today’s feminist glasses. That you for labeling correctly, men and women had biological roles that didn’t demean either of the genders. It is how we were cellularly and biologically. It worked the same way that a car cannot move without fuel. Each on it’s own doesn’t work, together they function. Now a days both genders want to be the car with the exception that most women still want men to provide the fuel!

  518. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    Once again…exactly where/when have I been justifying womens attitude?
    “The only thing that could be considered a justification is my statement that whiners wanting both of best worlds is just human beings tend to go for what suits them at the moment. Not really a justification as I haven’t approved or said the behavior is correct more like an explanation.

    Exactly what other justifications do you think I’ve made? As I haven’t made any statement about behaviors being correct/acceptable.”

  519. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    “There us no way that you can convience me that women had the same stress before that they have today. ”
    No on ewas trying to…o.O

    Perhaps you should read what’s there not what you want.

    “The stress levels between the men & women now and then most likely isn’t that wide of a gap. ”

    Women having the same stress as before is nowhere in there.

    In fact I was even comparing the stress of women then and now. I was comparing the difference of stress between men * women then and now.

    “What I stated was the stress levels between men and women most likely aren’t that wide of a difference from then and now. Such as women then stress level was 6 men’s 8 and women now stress level is 5 and men’s 7. Not that wide of a gap between then and now.”

  520. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    1. “Maybe her views are because she was in an abusive relationship herself and now she wants to label all men even the good ones as such. ”
    Maybe you’re just ASSuming because you don’t like what you’re hearing *

    Not sure how stating that women were likely to be stressed in a time when they depended on men for survival, divorce was frowned upon, and marital rape wasn’t illegal, and domestic abuse was swept under the rug far more then it is now is indication of having been in an abusive relationship.

    I find that discrediting the person rather than the opinion/words is fairly common.

    I thought it was just whiner men who claimed feminist/feminazi when a women did/said something they didn’t like. It seems more like it’s most men. While whiner women claim misogynistic/chauvinistic when a man does/says something they don’t like and most women claim unmanly/sissy.

    2. “Women having more heart attacks and stress related dieseases are Attributual to today’s lifestyle and there quest to be equals. ”
    Where is the evidence that women are having more heart attacks now then they were in the past?
    There is far more evidence showing that most doctors overlook women’s heart problems.

    3. “Again welcome to a mans world. All of today’s down fall is the result of feminism.”
    Yeah blaming failures on women for getting equal rights & treatment seem to be common amongst men. I don’t say responsibilities due to the draft bit. Seems like most men dislike having to treat women equally and think it means society downfall if women have the same amount of rights & treatment & responsibilities. While whiner men want an partner who does equal work to treat as a subordinate it seems most hetero men want a subordinate but claim they are treating her fairly.

    4. ” She will say she is happy being able to provide for herself rather than having to depending on a man. Right! Lol.”
    Why is that so laughable? I doubt most people would enjoy depending on another person for survival.

    5. “If men’s attitudes towards women have changed is because women want to be viewed as men and we know how men are with men and women complain that we treat them equally?”
    Ah evading responsibility and shifting blame. It’s like saying if “this group is bad it’s only because of that group.”

    People change because society/culture has changed yes other’s have an affect but it’s rarely the main or sole reason.

    6..” Were I’m from women dinwant the best if both worlds because they recognize that even though they want to be equals they also know they gave up a gpod thing in being cared for by a decent guy. And no here no woman reaches for her purse when the check hits the table.”

    Where I’m from most people want the best of both worlds but only the whiners expect & demand it.

    You’re assuming that in those days these would have been good men taking care of them and that they would have been treated. If these were such good times then marital rape would have been illegal or at the very least seen as possible

    If you want women who pay not just fake reach for the check then check out Fort Lauderdale..

  521. Gerald says:

    @udolpixie, to you an explanation? But isn’t an explanation the same as a justification? Your entire “explanation” is trying to justify were society is in regards to biological gender roles and human perceptions of what is occurring and progressing towards in our society which is non committed relationships, cyborg minded individuals ie: non emotional commitments, a society of individuals because the race will fail to find a reason to mesh except to procreate via test tube situation (which is occurring now), and babies that are raised by the state (isn’t that what is occurring since parenting by two has been essentially lost?). Humans have lost in their quest for their individuality the essence of what is meant by living. To form emotional committed unions for the purpose of emotionally stable beings and families. Again men and women are equal in the mind frame of humanity but each has a biological role that compliements each other. That we are losing and will be lost if we continue on this path. I offer no other proof as to have look at each generation after our grand parents and you will see the slow desinigration of an emotionally connected society. The grater good is no longer in our vocabulary but what’s in it for me mentality has taken hold. So don’t justify that today’s society is better off than that of our grand parents. Did bad things happen then and now of course nothing is perfect and their was also those who were socially deviant but that now society is better off please! Step out of your box and look at the world today as it compares to before

  522. Suz says:

    “Gerald: @suz, her comments are her justification for women roles viewed through today’s feminist glasses.”

    She doesn’t even know the glasses exist, or that the world would look different without them. I’m pretty sure she’s just whining for attention like a tag-along kid. She’s written pages and pages of comments harping on minutiae, so she can finally declare victory, “See? I was right! I win!” I don’t think she understands most of the conversation, but she sure knows how she feels about it.

  523. udolipixie says:

    “Your babel”
    Perhaps it wouldn’t be babel if you read what’s there rather than what you wanted.

    As you have shown by saying I’m justifying behavior when I haven’t made any approval/acceptance of any behavior.

    As you have shown by saying I’m claiming women’s stress levels are the same from my statement ““The stress levels between the men & women now and then most likely isn’t that wide of a gap. “. A statement that compares the difference of stress between men & women then and now not women’s stress then and now.

    “Yes I will give you that today’s society is self centered and selfish and each gender is out for whatever suits them without regard for what is beneficial to thier partner or the relationship as an US! ”
    You don’t have to give me that since it’s a general truth but okay then….o.O

    “I can go back as far as the caveman to show that equality as in the same didn’t exist.”
    Of course it didn’t exist. Women were physically weaker and the weak usually get less rights and/or oppressed.

    “Men were hunters and women nurturers. Men And women complimented each other and came together as one.”
    Egh that doesn’t prove that men & women complimented each other and came together.
    That proves women had less rights & treatment and that each gender had a role.

    “Try taking yourself out of the feminist today societal thinking pattern and even sit and talk to ”
    Egh perhaps try taking yourself out of reading what you want and automatically ASSuming feminism when I haven’t mentioned it or brought it up. Nor stated I was a feminist or.

    Or are you doing how men tend to do if a woman is saying/doing something I don’t like it’s feminist?

    How is it feminist thinking pattern to state a person who depends on another person for survival that if they leave it’d be frowned up and who may rape/abuse them with one act not even being illegal and the other likely to be swept under the rug may be stressed?

    How is it feminist thinking pattern to state people tend to want the best of however many worlds they can get?

  524. Feminist Hater says:

    Why are you still arguing with this harpy? There are far better things to do with one’s time. Don’t forget, she’s got cats to feed.

  525. udolipixie says:

    and talk to women who grew up back in the day and listen to thier opinion and I will guarantee that although they like the fact that women are given a choice today that they did sacrifice big time to get it.

    This statement right there shows you were just reading what you wanted not what was there.

    In what you called my babel I put I did talk to loads women of those days.

    Recall when a commenter stated other men would have sorted out that type of stuff aka rape/abuse:
    “Egh not really. I’ve talked to loads of women from that time.”

    “Women want men to be like those of yesteryear and men have taken the attitude because of feminism to say, hey your my equal why should I spoil, treat, or behave with you any differently than I do with other men, you want to make as much money as undo then cough up an equal share when the bill comes to the table. Why should I provide, didn’t you want to be the same?”
    Some women have taken that attitude.

    Most men have correctly taken the attitude of I shouldn’t treat you better because you’re a woman. However they’ve also added their own contradictory strings wanting a partner to do equal work/contribute equally but to treat as a subordinate and “wear the pants” A

    To me in outside of parental relationships no one should provide for another they should provide for each other. Most men get that. Some women get that.

    To me no one should be doing equal work only to be treated unequally/inferiorly because of their gender. Most women get that. Some men get that as evident by the “I wear the pants as I’m a man but we both contribute as we’re equals’

  526. Gerald says:

    I still say your views are tainted, why I can’t say and I will not generalize be ause i dont know younor your past but your repeated obsession with marital rape resounds with each posting. You continue to assume that I am stating that that women depended on men to survive. Read my statement what I am stating is women depended on men to provide financially as in the same that men depended on women to do their part of the cohesive union. Men and women depended on each other! Read again I said men were not better than women and women are were not better then men but together compliemented each other. I agree their was some good in the women’s (notice I’m not saying feminist) movement and the initial reasons were valid. Women should be able to vote, express their opinions, and yes work (because we know how tough it is to make it today on one salary) and men should help around the house if the woman is working. But that women have turned the ” Women’s Movement” into the “Feminist Movement” and it’s the feminist movement that has caused the societal changes I am referring to

  527. Suz says:

    “Yeah blaming failures on women for getting equal rights & treatment seem to be common amongst men. ”

    Pix, get this through your skull:
    Because of feminism, women have MORE rights and FEWER responsibilities than men.
    Say it out loud:
    “Because of feminism, women have MORE rights and FEWER responsibilities than men.”
    Now say it out loud again:
    “Because of feminism, women have MORE rights and FEWER responsibilities than men.”
    Every single opinion you have is coming from a mind that doesn’t believe or even comprehend this fact:
    “Because of feminism, women have MORE rights and FEWER responsibilities than men.”
    In light of this fact, nearly everything you have said here this week is either untrue or irrelevant. Yet you keep hammering away.
    “Because of feminism, women have MORE rights and FEWER responsibilities than men.”

    Annoying, isn’t it?

  528. Udol is fully and completely thriving in the narcissism of personal experience…”thats not true cause I never saw that”….”not true, i talked to women from that time”…..”to me”….all anecdotes, not only are the rationally NOT evidence, they show the deficit in abstract thinking ability.

    If anything she is telling what we already know, until a woman realizes this handicap and then attempts to reason around it, she will spew anecdotal nonsense and it is useless discourse

  529. udolipixie says:

    @Suz
    1. “In the past we were “smarter” because society generally followed our biological gender roles. ”
    Following biology may not always be the smart or smartest thing to do.

    2. “A few quirks notwithstanding, it worked far better than the feminist denial of human nature. ”
    I’ve yet to see outside of extremists deny human nature. Perhaps feminism deny what most men claim to be is human nature for the genders.

    3. “Feminism thinks we can and should choose and define our gender roles according to our whims.”
    That’s feminism…I thought that was American society as most people tend to do that.

    4. “In America most people have a bad attitude and are nasty it’s not a gender thing it’s a people thing.” Not a gender thing? Are you blind? Try watching TV for an hour without seeing a “good-natured, non-malicious” portrayal of men as bumbling idiots.
    American TV sh*ts on everyone. There’s few good natured non malicious portrayal of women.

    it’s ironic it sh*ts on every group but always places each on their own pedestal.

    However I was talking about people’s attitude and treatment of each other not media portrayal.

    5. It’s a horrible attitude, disguised as subtle humor. You don’t even notice it because it’s not “rude.”
    Egh I notice when racism and sexism are apparent in the media. I’ve notice the bad portrayal of both genders. To me it’s not rude just unfortunate. What’s rude is people’s treatement of each other.

    6. “Women’s lib meant that women had the same rights as men.” Bahahahahaha! You’re trolling, aren’t you? When women won the right to vote, to own property, and to be educated, they had the same rights as men.
    Thanks to women’s lib and the women and men behind them. So women’s lib did do what it was meant for.

    Not all women in the world have those rights so women’s lib works in those places.

    7. Then they promptly voted themselves more rights than any man will ever have.
    How? What more rights are you walking about?

    Only thing I’ve seen is lack of responsibility with the draft.

    I’ve yet to see any new law created supported by women’s lib giving women more rights than men outside of abortion.

  530. udolipixie says:

    @Suz
    ” Your ignorance is showing. “Society” and “cultures” have survived in a hostile world BECAUSE of inborn gender roles. ”
    Your ignorance is showing as surviving doesn’t mean it was happy or healthy. Just that it survived.

    Slavery helped the South to survive and there were race roles however it wasn’t happy or healthy.

    “Society did not create male behaviors and female behaviors. male behaviors and female behaviors created society. We would be extinct without them.”
    Society does reinforce which behaviors are acceptable and not.

    Since male & female behavior create society then female & male behavior helped create this society so why the whole uproar and saying now it’s denying human nature. Seems quite like the slave owners uproar and saying it’s denying racial natures to free the slaves.

  531. Suz says:

    Gerald, her views ARE tainted, and she doesn’t even know it. As long as she engages us, she “wins.” FH is right. What’s the name for that thing in baseball, where they verbally distract the batter in an effort to make him choke? You know, “Hey, batter-batter-batter SWING!”

  532. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald.
    ” her comments are her justification for women roles viewed through today’s feminist glasses.”
    Once again.

    Show me where/when I justified any behaviors.

    I haven’t made any moral decisions on any behaviors.

    So I haven’t approved/accepted or disapproved any.

    Recall once more again:
    The only thing that could be considered a justification is my statement that whiners wanting both of best worlds is just human beings tend to go for what suits them at the moment. Not really a justification as I haven’t approved or said the behavior is correct more like an explanation.

    Exactly what other justifications do you think I’ve made? As I haven’t made any statement about behaviors being correct/acceptable.

    “It worked the same way that a car cannot move without fuel. Each on it’s own doesn’t work, together they function. Now a days both genders want to be the car with the exception that most women still want men to provide the fuel!”
    Some women. The whiners.

    No different than the men who want the women to contribute to the car’s finances but have him be the only ones to drive it because he’s man so he’s in charge despite both doing equal work.

  533. Gerald says:

    @suz. I agree she is so caught up in her “marital rape” senerio that she can’t see that I am not putting down women or men but trying to get her to take off the “oh poor me” attitude and see things as a whole not emotionally but hence she is a female and can only particpate if it’s using their personal experience or as stated by someone else in the blog “if it didn’t happen to me it could not be” mentality. I cannot continue to re word my comments so she can vrap what I’m trying to state!!!!

  534. Suz says:

    Ah yes. Because “happy” and “healthy” are so much more important than food and shelter.

    Now I get it. Are you, like, um, sixteen? ‘Cause you live, like, a very, so totally, sheltered life if you have managed to reach, you know, adulthood in such naivete. TTYL! (Not)

  535. Suz says:

    Yep. She’s a troll. Is it just me, or are her comments so convoluted and illogical that I had to read them twice to even understand what she was trying to say? And reading them ONCE was plenty painful. Just1x had the right idea.

  536. Feminist Hater says:

    Um, udolipixie? Haven’t you got more important things to do? Like saving the rainforests or poor Somalian children, the Planet perhaps? Really now, your time being well spent is far more important to Humanities survival, I implore you, stop this inane insanity now.

    Reach into that vast well of female intuition and live your life free from the trappings of men. Show us that a woman such as yourself is truly done with men! Show us by not commenting.

    AND for shame women, there are cats at stake for heaven’s sake! Just you being here has placed them on the extinction list. Whatever will millions of spinsters around the Western World do without those furry critters!? Have you no shame?!

  537. Gerald says:

    @suz, your right she cannot even stand her ground. She goes from stating that her comments are explanations were in my book explanations are justification, ie, this is because of that! Justifications! she sees only the minority of injustices that have always existed and uses them to “explain” why feminism has been good for society. She blames us for ASSuming but she fails to comprehend what we are stating. Let’s allow her to ride the pity wagon all the way back to her reality of apparent marital rape, association with men who apparently expect her to cough up on paying the bill and still doing more work than the man? My reading and reasearch has shown the opposite. Society has given more rights to women other the basics of voting, speech, etc and what you read is men having to adjust down to what women expect and she complains that we are holding them to the standard they requested, you want to be equal than be equal. Do as I do

  538. Suz says:

    “7. Then they promptly voted themselves more rights than any man will ever have.
    ***How? What more rights are you walking about”***

    OM(f)G!!! Can anybody believe she just asked that? Wow.

  539. time to talk to the hand, or whatever conveyance of “go ‘way kid ya bother me” you prefer.

    the rambling posts, the way the quotes are inserted, the anecdotal claims, it is nearly impossible to follow anyway.

    I really do not think there is any danger of anyone being swayed by her, so………

    Offer crickets

  540. Oh my goodness, the post on slavery and surviving is so bad I cannot believe anyone processes information that way. Well, yes I can…..

    Does she have a blog? HEY! You got a blog? Invite us over, er, fer dinner…..serve ya’self cause you have been eaten alive anyway rhetorically and forensically speaking.

    This degree of stuck on stupid is not able to be engaged.

  541. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    1. “to you an explanation? But isn’t an explanation the same as a justification? ”
    To me an explaining the behavior is not accepting or approving it.

    An explanation that accepts, condones or approves the behavior is a justification to me.

    2. “Your entire “explanation” is trying to justify were society is in regards to biological gender roles”
    Egh no.

    My explanation that you claimed was a justification had nothing to do with biological gender roles.
    I stated people tend to do what suits them at the moment something you took for justifying some women’s bad behavior. Not sure how that has anything to do with justifying society in regards to biological gender roles.

    3. “Did bad things happen then and now of course nothing is perfect and their was also those who were socially deviant but that now society is better off please! ”
    Where/when did I state that society was better now then it was in the past. I stated it progressed. The amount of bad/good now and then is still pretty much on level just with different things.

  542. udolipixie says:

    @Suz
    “She doesn’t even know the glasses exist, or that the world would look different without them.”
    I know many types of glasses exist. Victomhood classes are common.

    Men thinking they are the poor victims and women are high up on pedestals and anyone who says different is a feminist/feminazi or not in reality.

    Women thinking they are the poor victims and men are their enemies and anyone who says different is a misogynist or chauvinistic and not in reality.

    Yeah I don’t wear those glasses.

    “I’m pretty sure she’s just whining for attention like a tag-along kid. She’s written pages and pages of comments harping on minutiae, so she can finally declare victory, “See? I was right! I win!” I don’t think she understands most of the conversation, but she sure knows how she feels about it.”
    I’m pretty sure most of you are just reading what you want.

    The whole harping on the minutiae just to finally declare victory seems to be more of other commenters on this blog than me. In fact one commenter even stated “Yay! Success!” after he first responded to me with an insult on 2 separate pages, evaded all my questions on how he got what he stated I was claiming with shaming language & more insults, and then stated he wasn’t even reading what I was saying when he declared I was claiming stuff not once but twice.

    Exactly what is this minutiae that I’m harping on?

  543. udolipixie says:

    @Feminist Hater
    Probably the same reason you felt compelled to comment about me and insult me.

    Emotional reaction overriding logic.

    “Don’t forget, she’s got cats to feed.”
    No cats. Nothing wrong with people who do have them. The sad old cat lady cliche seems to be quite unhealthy as plenty of girls I know have gotten into relationships with guys because they didn’t want to be frowned upon by society for being alone.

    Those relationships weren’t healthy or happy for either parties.

    Nice ad hominens.

  544. udolipixie says:

    @Bubbles12

    Are you saying you’re tired of being used so you’ll use or that only a certain standard is worth it enough for your attention now?

  545. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    “Read my statement what I am stating is women depended on men to provide financially as in the same that men depended on women to do their part of the cohesive union. Men and women depended on each other! ”

    I already read that.
    Recall:
    “To me it’s not a gender thing to provide as self-sufficiency is providing for one self. Nor is it a gender thing to nurture as plenty of fathers and want to be fathers I know would take dislike to that.”

    For men & women needing each other.
    Recall:
    “Egh I disagree due to the people having different sexual orientations. I’m not on the whole hetero men & hetero women are missing puzzle pieces or whatever. Nor and I on the whole hetero women need men and hetero men need women. For me it’s more like hetero women want men and hetero men want women.”

  546. udolipixie says:

    @Gerald
    “but your repeated obsession with marital rape resounds with each posting.”
    Stating all/most men rape or will rape would be indicative of my past.

    Showing distrust, victimhood clinging, getting emotional over it, or mentioning git when it bears no relevancy would be indicative of my past.

    Stating that a woman in those times had those situations and would have some stress is not past indicative.

    But cool on the playing therapist and more reading what you want.

    It’s not an obsession to when the context is that’s a situation women had in the past and that would induce some stress.

    The context was women’s stress in the past. My stance was women in those times had a stressful environment with being dependent for survival on a partner in a society where you has less rights, divorced is frowned upon, and rape by your partner wasn’t illegal, and abuse from you partner was usually swept under.

  547. Gerald says:

    @pixie, She is too circular in her mushroom induced logic or maybe she has been inhaling kitty litter fumes. “To me an explaining the behavior is not accepting or approving it”. First she off offers “explanations” for everything in her comments and then retracts by saying she is not approving or disapproving of anything she states thus, since she is not approving or disapproving they are not justifications? What? Then why comment if you have no opinion. do you spew rhetoric just to spew. No one states or comments unless they are of their own opinion or lets say they shouldn’t. Oh wait, maybe your a politician spewing rhetoric because they feel thats what everyone wants to hear? I’m done. Trying to find logic and reasoning with her is out of the question as you per your own admission “on the fence”. then to her biological roles which no one can deny if you take away today deviant and self serving attitudes of wanting to be who they want to be and recognizing that gender roles do exist is totally denied in her what is it again, explanation, justification, stating something off the cuff with no opinion? Finally, “To me it’s not a gender thing to provide as self-sufficiency is providing for one self. Nor is it a gender thing to nurture as plenty of fathers and want to be fathers I know would take dislike to that.” Get off it. Your trying to rationalize based on today’s feminist thought patterns. I am positive that in those days women did not feel they were subservient as they were only fulfilling their biological roles as did their mothers and grandmothers, and men did not provide thinking hah I’m superior. No men provided because they felt it was their role and both new they were nurturing the family. They knew their roles in the family and it worked. Yes of course Pixie, their were the off shoots, the deviants, but you generalize and even with your last post bring up again, marital rape as if it was a common everyday occurrence. Poor you. When you decide that you do have an opinion and are justifying your thoughts and reasoning. Please post.for now the bucket is full and not another drop of spew will fit.

  548. Suz says:

    Dude. I am impressed. How on earth did you manage to grasp even that much of what she said? You must be exhausted. I posted this on another article, but it was meant for this one:

  549. Gerald says:

    @suz, I don’t if I even grasped it. Did it seem that way? Must have been that bang g of my head in the wall trying to even chew what she was spewing! She is the typical feminist and the reason women have become droids or hamsters like you so eloguently stated! She has an opinion on everything but wait it’s not an opinion because she only stated but didn’t agree or disagree, is that the way it works? Have you ever heard Anything like that before? Lets hope she only has a cat and not a man who has his finger on the trigger of a 45 pointed at his head.

  550. Just1X says:

    @Suz
    “Just1x had the right idea.”
    you just made my day. BTW I was NOT kidding about not reading her posts.

    @Dolly,
    in all seriousness, please search out some help. I’m not having a dig at you (this time). As one human being to another, find someone qualified to talk to face to face. I know that I played with you from the start, but others here have come to the same conclusion through good faith discussion.

  551. Happy @ 55 says:

    I am a 55 year old woman who has been divorced for 9 years. While we were still married, my ex-husband met a woman on the internet who he married 2 months after our divorce. He is now on marriage #3 with an infant at 54. I carried around the hurt of abandonment & betrayal for about 5 years & worked on improving my life. We both made mistakes & I take responsibility mine. I was married for 17 years & hadn’t dated since my 20’s. When I got back out there, thing were so different with internet dating & not looking like that young woman in my 20’s any longer. In spite of the way my marriage ended, I never was hostile toward men. I’ve dated off & on & had one serious relationship since my divorce. I made mistakes along the way & met some men who weren’t so nice & some who were. However, in spite of a lot of the generalizations going on here….I still remain positive about meeting someone special & I still love sex too. I do have friends, get out socially, work, have a full life & that’s a good thing! While I still feel lonely at times, I have grown as a person & really blossomed since my divorce.

    Regarding all of the negative talk about feminism, my mother was divorced with 4 children in the early 60’s & received no child support & was not a feminist. We struggled, but managed when mom went to work in factories before the wages were good. Learning to be self-sufficient came from that experience, not feminism. My sister-in-law was a traditional stay at home mom of 4 when my brother died at 41 & she had to learn to become self-sufficient. It doesn’t mean that we don’t want or need a man in our life b/c we are capable of taking care of ourselves. The desire for companionship, love & affection still exists for many of us, but we’re not going to stop living & enjoying life because those opportunites are less as we age.

  552. tanya says:

    Interesting discussion. Me – Female, age 50, never married, no children. Worked to support my self since high school – still working – still live alone. In a long term relationship (11 yrs and counting). Observation about the male I am partnered with: who needs children when you have one of these! I am extremely independent as I have always counted on my self to take care of my self. I guess it baffles me to see a grown man acting like a two year old when things don’t go as he wants them to. Or to see a grown man acting like a 16 year old who “knows it all” and thinks he is smarter than every one else – but still needs to be taken care of – like a child. Perhaps in 5 years, I will be finally tired of taking care of a child that never grows up and want to leave too. Anyway – I love him – we all have our faults and peculiarities. After all – in his eyes I am a complete idiot and at times a “waste of skin” and deserve to be “punched in the head”. (Reminds me of the two year old shouting at his mom “mommy bad – I hate mommy!” when he doesn’t get what he wants when he wants it.) I’m sure if he knew better, he would do better – but the 16 yr old ‘know it all’ prevents further learning. So, if this relationship comes to an end – I won’t be looking for a replacement. In the mean time – we do have a lot of fun together. And I will continue to try to set a good example of how to deal with life’s frustrations and disappointments with maturity and a sense of humor (which usually doesn’t go down very well). I guess I can’t expect him to deal with frustrations the same way as I do, just a he can’t expect me to go into a rage every time things don’t go my way. We are all different.

  553. Rmaxd says:

    Hey tanya,

    Can you explain how your boyfriend is like a child? Also how does need caring like a child?

    Also what do you mean not looking for a replacement? Are you done with men, or just not attractive enough to find a man?

    I also find it interesting you’ve been with a child for over 11 years … cant an extremely independent woman find a man who isnt a child?

    I applaud your maturity for staying with a child for over 11 years … most mature adults stay with immature children for over 11 years, especially women … Im sure your mature decision to stay with a child has nothing to do with being extremely independent …

  554. very much true says:

    i am a straight man, that certainly has to agree with this. i was married at one time, and i was a very caring and loving husband, that never cheated on her. she cheated on me and had the nerve to say to me that she wanted an open marriage. i told her to get the hell out of my life, you filthy whore. and i knew the man that she cheated on me with. i was certainly the committed one in the relationship, and had hoped to have a family that i wanted at the time. and i did love her very much at the time that i was married to her. now, being in my late fifties makes it very difficult too meet women again for me. i have noticed that many of them have an attitude problem, and are just to nasty to talk too. not to mention, they play very hard too get now. many of them, have just become so rotten now. there are a lot of women now that lesbians, and what human waste that they are. it is obviously why, so many straight men like us will certainly have a problem meeting straight now. it is so very sad, that many women cannot make it with a man. what losers.

  555. right on says says:

    most of the women out there now are very uneducated, which certainly complicates things today. there are a lot of us straight men today over the age of 55 that are having a very hard time meeting women. it is hard because of are age, especially after being married for such a long time before. women have become very nasty, and many of them now have an attitude problem that i have noticed. there are many women that i cannot even talk too, because they just do not want to be bothered at all. so yes, after the age of 55, women do not really want to bother with men anymore. but if they have a lot of money, women will certainly take advantage of them.

  556. Happy @ 55 says:

    I am not responding to any one individual. I could have stayed bitter after my divorce, but I made the decision to work on improving myself & look at the mistakes that I made. It’s easy to lump all people of the opposite sex together, but the reality is that we’re all different. Some men & women, no matter what their circumstances, make the decision to work on living a contented life. Life hasn’t been easy for most of us after divorce. I am a postiive, hard working 55 year old woman who will continue to enjoy life with family & friends & as well as date & find a special someone if the opportunity exits. We all need to take responsibility for ourselves & how that impacts other people. For those of you who appear so bitter & hostile, perhaps your own attitudes are keeping your from meeting & connecting with those of the opposite sex. Even under the best of circumstances, dating isn’t easy, but working on our own issues, participating in activities that interest you & having a support system of family & friends can add joy to our lives if we allow it to happen.

  557. Happy @ 55 says:

    (I didn’t catch my typos in my prior post until I sent it) Just to add to my last post, I know this blog focuses on woman 55 & over & relationships, but there are so many people here that seem to be taking their bitterness out on a whole population of human beings. I never forgot Ann Landers words, “staying angry with someone is like letting them live rent free in your head.” After divorce, lots of us are hurt & angry and that’s normal. However, if you don’t work through it with counseling or find a way to move past those feelings, it will carry over into every aspect of your life. So, I do hope you can eventually find peace in your hearts & the ability to move forward & live life with zest! If I can do it, anyone can! It’s not about having lots of money, a perfect body or a beautiful face. It simply starts with changing your attitude & learning to forgive yourself, your ex & those who have impacted your life in a negative way. Life isn’t perfect, but I’ve had to work hard at be with the living, instead of getting sucked into that black hole of negativity & depression for the rest of my life. Carpe Diem!

  558. ybm says:

    Enjoy your cats spinster.

  559. Happy @ 55 says:

    I’m having too much fun to be a spinster! Life is good!

  560. Just1X says:

    nice try rmaxd, can see what you were aiming for.

    Tanya, you virtuous angel, you. Why not leave him, let him enjoy his final decades in peace and quiet? You can be certain that he’ll pine for you – but don’t you take him back, you soft hearted dream woman you…if only there were two of you, so I could live the dream too

  561. Suz says:

    Happy @ 55,
    I too, am a “positive” person who thinks forward an tries not to dwell on past pain, and I understand your sentiments about the anger (and in some cases, utterly disillusioned bitterness) in the Manosphere. When I came here, I immediately realized however, something that may not have occurred to you yet: You and I speak from a secure position of privilege. As women, we have had countless forums in which to vent our emotions, throughout our entire lives. We’ve had our girlfriends, our mothers, our sisters, our coworkers, magazines, books, Oprah & Phil (and their ilk) to help us analyze our anger, and strategize out futures. For the past fifty years, men have had no such support structures; apparently they are presumed to not need it. Until the advent of the internet, feminism had silenced men. Women have infiltrated all of their “separate” activities, and told them that their opinions and feelings are invalid. Five decades of pent-up frustration is coming out now, and you can bet your last dollar there’s bitterness here. There is also hope, advice, compassion, community, and sound logical principles that nobody has been allowed to mention for years. Men come here and find the truth. Then they wondered why nobody told them this truth BEFORE they were eviscerated by the women they loved. Of course they’re angry!

    You have just tripped over the elephant under the rug, you’ve made eye contact with the 800 pound gorilla in the room. What you are seeing has existed all along, but we have all been trying not to notice it. We’ve been hoping it will go away because it just doesn’t match the furniture. That furniture was put there by feminism, and the moving van has arrived.

  562. Happy @ 55 says:

    @ Suz, I am all for personal expression, venting & getting anger out of ones system, but many of the myopic viewpoints expressed here about women are truly unfortunate. Men have had their forums for self expression on the golf course, over a beer with their buddies, etc.. You may feel that we as women grew up privlaged to be able to express ourselves, but over the years, many of us have also had to learn to rise above hurtful words made by men who have been in our lives, as well as strangers. That takes determination! I would imagine that none of these men would want there mothers or daughters to be treated in the same manner. At some point, we all have to take responsibility for our own attitudes & behaviors. It’s possible to have a dialogue, disagree & behave in a civil manner.

  563. Suz says:

    Shall we start by applying everything you just said to women? Or is the female portrayal of men as incompetent, mindless, selfish buffoons, so ubiquitous that you don’t even notice it. It gets old seeing people criticize men’s “angry, women-hating, degrading tirades,” (or whatever you all are calling it this week.) When was the last time you piped up during a female bitch session among your coworkers? “Oh, please! Your husband’s not an idiot. He’s probably just tired of kissing your whiny fat ass.” Try dropping that little bomb among the girls; see how it goes over.

  564. TFH says:

    At some point, we all have to take responsibility for our own attitudes & behaviors.

    Heh. I dare you to tell that to most women. They won’t agree.

    It’s possible to have a dialogue, disagree & behave in a civil manner.

    Feminists have proven otherwise.

    It is time for men to stop putting themselves last. I am soooo glad that men are pushing back against female entitlement and misandry.

  565. Just1X says:

    “I’m having too much fun to be a spinster! Life is good!”

    That’s the sign of a great good woman. However much fun they’re having, they’ll always take the time to go bitch, moan and attempt to shame men.

    “It’s possible to have a dialogue, disagree & behave in a civil manner.”

    Did it ever occur to you that we don’t want a dialogue? And shaming language doesn’t work round here. You’d be better off at the Good Boy Project. It’s a site ‘for men’ run by feminists eager to define the roles for men that they approve of. You’ll love it, you go grrrrryl

    p.s.
    Carpe jugulum always had a better ring to it IMHO

  566. Rmaxd says:

    Im not sure these pensioners hopped up on happy pills realise the mess theyve made of their lives …

    @Happy

    I find it amusing old hags always try to set the rules of conduct, while calling men bitter & angry

    You’re happy being a spinster? You’ve failed at being a mother, you’ve failed at being a wife, & you’ve failed at being a woman

    All you are now is a post-menopausal pensioner, you’re barren, childless, with no family, & only the company of cats, while you masturbate in some dingy hole hoping your batteries dont die out of freaking old age …

    All you have now are second hand orgasms, & a desensitised vagina from all that vibrating, a pathetic facsimilie of the full body contact of a man to give you what you crave …

    You’re the epitome of a failure, you lost the best years of your life, & now you’re so delusional & in denial you mistake being a failure for being pathetically happy …

    Get your facts straight, being a spinster has never been about strong & independent, it’s a MASSIVE failure at everything a woman is supposed to be

    The cold hard reality is, nature is BRUTAL to old hags like yourself, there are NO second chances at regaining your fertility or your youth

    It’s actually easier to build an artificial womb, then it is to give some old hag her fertility back …

    Women look at you, & they know you’re a failure, they know you’ve given up, once you get on that carousel, & u go girl career, you’re life is over …

    & you’re life as a whore & prostitute & eventual spinsterhood has begun …

    What is even more pathetic, you spinsters, STILL think you can continue your whore like lifestyle in your old age … you had your chance & you blew it …

  567. Happy @55 says:

    Feel free to vent & spew your bitter & hostile words, as they no longer affect me.

  568. deti says:

    @ Happy said:

    “Suz, I am all for personal expression, venting & getting anger out of ones system, but many of the myopic viewpoints expressed here about women are truly unfortunate. Men have had their forums for self expression on the golf course, over a beer with their buddies, etc.. You may feel that we as women grew up privlaged to be able to express ourselves, but over the years, many of us have also had to learn to rise above hurtful words made by men who have been in our lives, as well as strangers. That takes determination! I would imagine that none of these men would want there mothers or daughters to be treated in the same manner. At some point, we all have to take responsibility for our own attitudes & behaviors. It’s possible to have a dialogue, disagree & behave in a civil manner.”

    Allow me to translate. Here’s what Happy is really saying.

    Not only are you men bitter, you’re shortsighted. Men don’t need to talk on the internet. They all get to go golfing and drink beer and talk about and do whatever they want, so they have no right to go anywhere and talk bad about women. No, men NEVER have to do things like work, earn money, follow their bosses’ orders, or fix things around the house. They have all kinds of time to do anything they want.

    How DARE men come on here and talk even a little bit about how women treated them badly!? They have NO RIGHT to complain at all, EVER!

    It’s we women who need to express ourselves because men repeatedly offend us and our sensibilities by saying such horrible, hurtful things to us as

    “I want to have sex with you”
    “could you please make me some dinner that I’d like to eat?”
    “can you help with this?”
    “You need to stay within our budget.”
    “Can you please wear some clothes I would like to see you wear?”
    “Can you please take into consideration what I would like to see/do/eat?”
    “Can you please consider where I would like to go?”
    “You need to go back to work. The kids are in school and we need some further income.”

    I’m a strong and independent woman. I overcame these terrible things by splitting up with my husband.

    You men wouldn’t say these things to your mothers or daughters. Never mind that your mothers are the ones who gave you the absolute wrong things to do and say with women, and are some of the most toxic women around. Never mind that some of your daughters are out there right now chasing “alpha” thugs, lowlifes and bad boys (like I wished I had done).

    Having dialogue in a civil manner means I get to come in here, say whatever I want, and sling thinly veiled insults and shaming language at you men. But you men have to be quiet, sit there, take it, and say only nice, kind, supplicating, sweetness and light things to me, because I’m a woman, dammit, and you have to TAKE ME SERIOUSLY and Don’t Hit Me I’m A Girl!

  569. Gerald says:

    And there you have it. She has finally put up the wall all women put up to push men away and protect thier sensitivities against truths that don’t reflect their circular thinking pattern of if it didn’t happen to me I can’t be so! But of course we can’t expect any feminist to have the BALLS they so proudly wear because “We don’t need men” and admit, “your right I’m that way deal with it”. Which I personally would respect more than pure denial and justification from a narrowlistic point of view. I know women who have admitted the injustices and the attitudes women nowadays have but of course would not change it because it would not be in their favor! But I ask the same question, would you want today’s women to treat your father, son, brother the way they treat and expect men to be?

  570. deti says:

    @ Tanya said:

    Interesting discussion. Me – Female, age 50, never married, no children. Worked to support my self since high school – still working – still live alone. In a long term relationship (11 yrs and counting). Observation about the male I am partnered with: who needs children when you have one of these! I am extremely independent as I have always counted on my self to take care of my self. I guess it baffles me to see a grown man acting like a two year old when things don’t go as he wants them to. Or to see a grown man acting like a 16 year old who “knows it all” and thinks he is smarter than every one else – but still needs to be taken care of – like a child. Perhaps in 5 years, I will be finally tired of taking care of a child that never grows up and want to leave too. Anyway – I love him – we all have our faults and peculiarities. After all – in his eyes I am a complete idiot and at times a “waste of skin” and deserve to be “punched in the head”. (Reminds me of the two year old shouting at his mom “mommy bad – I hate mommy!” when he doesn’t get what he wants when he wants it.) I’m sure if he knew better, he would do better – but the 16 yr old ‘know it all’ prevents further learning. So, if this relationship comes to an end – I won’t be looking for a replacement. In the mean time – we do have a lot of fun together. And I will continue to try to set a good example of how to deal with life’s frustrations and disappointments with maturity and a sense of humor (which usually doesn’t go down very well). I guess I can’t expect him to deal with frustrations the same way as I do, just a he can’t expect me to go into a rage every time things don’t go my way. We are all different.

    This is just too easy.

    Translation:

    I’m a “StrongIndependentWoman” ™ in an LTR with an alpha who won’t marry me. I’m so attracted to this man who for the past 11 years has treated me like sh*t. He does whatever he wants, acts like a stupid-ass teenager who won’t grow up, and for good measure he freeloads off me and insults me regularly. I can’t for the life of me figure out how or why I find him so damn attractive. I can’t live without him because he’s so much fun. I’m the responsible one. I work and provide most of the money for us to live on. I could have married a responsible man, but “responsible guys” are icky betas and they never tingled me.

    I write with supreme authority about children and how they act despite the fact that I’ve never had children myself and absolutely do not want them.

    But hey, I’m the example to follow, because I put up with it all with maturity and good humor.

  571. Gerald says:

    @deti, took the words right outta my conscious! Hilarious and oh so true. Another female clueless and self righteous giving thoughts on something she has no experience in and still thinking she is superior. I need to meet her Dude

  572. Fumblebuck says:

    Why Tanya stays with her boyfriend, in Roissy Speak:

    B============D

    With a significant number of these skinwalkers, it’s all about the friction.

  573. Tracey says:

    Hi all, I commented a while back (the optimistic 27 year old). Thanks to those of you who responded. :) I read this blog periodically (mostly with horror and dismay) because I want to understand men so that I can become a better woman and human being. I realize now that it’s terribly presumptuous of me to be posting on a site that clearly isn’t intended for people like me. But I have to say something about the disparaging comments that women are “loose vaginas” when they are young and so they miss out on conventional marriage and child raising (they become “failures as a woman”).

    I dress and behave modestly feminine and I keep my knees together unless I’m in a committed relationship. Which, in this day and age, means my knees are together a lot. Guys don’t want to date “good girls”. They don’t want to date at all. They just want to hook up. I get hit on regularly, but do I get asked out on dates? Guys will say, “I’m going to be at Club XYZ on Sat night, you should swing by….” That’s what passes as a date these days. Guys want you to show up, get drunk, and go home with them. It’s not just “alpha males” that do this – it’s “betas”, too (I’d kill for a beta male of mine own, by the way). I don’t go clubbing – I’d rather go hiking, swimming, watch a concert, see a movie, whatever. You’ll argue that women have too HIGH expectations and that dating isn’t worth it for men. I understand. I don’t expect a guy to take me out to an expensive dinner – I prefer to meet for coffee and light conversation. Don’t woo me with your money, I can pay for myself (I’m a product of the feminist machine, after all), just show me your intelligence, humor, and kindness. From my experience, it’s the guys who have LOWERED their standards too much and only want the instant gratification that comes with those “loose vaginas” and porn. They are great for one-night stands, but men are actually marrying those loose vaginas!

    Maybe the problem is with me. I’m professional and a liberal feminist. But after a long day of being the professional-equal-opportunity-career-woman, I want to come home and be the biological woman and I want my (hypothetical) man to be the man. He’ll cut the grass, I’ll make him dinner. I’ll slip into something frilly and put on some heels, he gets to watch and be taken care of. I fantasize about being his special plaything. I also fantasize about making him soup when he’s sick, comforting his children when they cry, and holding his hand when his doctor has bad news. I want to be a “person” at work and a “woman” at home. I don’t think that violates liberal feminist ideals (or am I a really bad feminist?). But being a career woman with self-respect today means I’m a “feminazi” and no one wants to buy this cow when loose vaginas are giving their milk for free. From the posts on here, older “more mature” men look at younger women with just as much disdain (we’re just things to “bang” to get back at your ex-wife). What’s a girl to do? You may say, “well, that’s what feminism created” and you may be right. I can’t turn my back on feminism completely. I’m in dental school and that would never have happened without the feminist movement – so I have to be grateful. But I suspect that the next generation of men (probably future posters on this blog) will keep chasing after (marrying/ divorcing) those loose vaginas, because they are easy and alluring. Cute gals like me will stay single and childless, because I’m just not worth the effort of coffee when there are hot tramps in the club. My looks will fade, my ovaries will dry up, and Rmaxd and deti can tell me what a failure to womanhood I am. :( I realize this isn’t an Ask the Reader column in Seventeen magazine, but I would appreciate any thoughts of you gentlemen about this (I prefer constructive over insulting comments, although I’m sure someone on here will rip me a new one!). :) Thanks.

  574. Just1X says:

    @Tracey,

    not ripping anything, but have you visited http://www.hookingupsmart.com/ ?

    I think you’ll find the discussion there more aimed at the female side of the issues. Not to say that you shouldn’t lurk here as well, I love both sites, but they’re not aimed at the same marketplace. In my not-deeply-thought-out opinion, they appear to be edging apart (since a bust up around christmas), but as I say I love both of them. YMMV

  575. Rico says:

    “Maybe the problem is with me. I’m professional and a liberal feminist.”

    Yep, pretty much nailed it. The true “good guys” (as in, not namby pamby pushovers) want nothing to do with liberal feminists. Sorry.

  576. ybm says:

    @Tracey
    “Cute gals like me will stay single and childless, because I’m just not worth the effort of coffee when there are hot tramps in the club.”

    I’m not going to attack you the way I should. If I did it would be for your own good to hear it. Except to say that you will never have what you want. By going to “dental” school and doing all of the stereotypical college girl stuff (including serial monogamy which you yourself admit to) you have lost the ability to “have it all” and I think you know that now. The world you want, the one of being a working grrrrrl feminist and a submissive wife is something your brain is simply not going to be capable of doing. By going into higher education, you will always feel guilty if you try to be the submissive little thing your genetics tried to make you. Your intentional rewiring of your brain has ensured that.

    Best of luck, I’m sure whatever thug you throw yourself at this weekend for a self-esteem boost will appreciate what I have just told you.

  577. thingsthatgohmm says:

    Many misunderstandings & anger on both sides. Women in their thirties say they cannot find a nice man. What they want is nice with a hot body and flash. They won’t look at a nice man who may be less attractive and not suave. No matter how thin a woman gets on diets, she is still going to be alone if her values are superficial. Single women outnumber single men. Do the math. Be realistic, too. Ladies, some of the men are pretty bad here. This is what the typical male feels but will not say in polite company.

  578. Tracey says:

    Hi All – I really appreciate your input and opinions. :) And no, I didn’t throw myself at a “thug” this weekend – I spent it in the library with my classmates (male and female) studying! :P Anyway, thanks for letting me vent and thanks for replying. Hope things start looking up for everyone. Best. ~Tracey

  579. Tracey says:

    @ Just1x – I really appreciate the link. Thanks. Very kind of you. :)

  580. greenlander says:

    I dress and behave modestly feminine and I keep my knees together unless I’m in a committed relationship. Which, in this day and age, means my knees are together a lot. Guys don’t want to date “good girls”. They don’t want to date at all. They just want to hook up. I get hit on regularly, but do I get asked out on dates?

    My God, please spare me.

    There really are “good girls” out there that deserve being taken care of. However, it doesn’t sound like you fit into this category (for the reasons ybm explained). And please drop the schtick about serial monogamy having some kind of virtue: every partner you have lowers your marriage value regardless of whether they are “done” concurrently or sequentially.

    The problem with taking girls out on “dates” is that it just results in getting tooled. The ratio of “girls that appear to be good girls but are really hypergamous skanks” to “actual good girls” is pretty large. If a guy invests a lot of resources “dating” a girl, it just means that he’s going to extend time and money courting a skank in disguise who is taking in cock from the local band singer when he isn’t around. I know this because I’ve experienced it many times. Most guys know this, which is why no guys want to “date” in the sense that you’re thinking about it.

    I do “date” girls who describe themselves as good girls, but my cutoff for that is about 24 or 25. If a girl passes that age without getting married, she’s not really a “good girl” in the sense that I describe one.

  581. Brendan says:

    Maybe the problem is with me. I’m professional and a liberal feminist. But after a long day of being the professional-equal-opportunity-career-woman, I